Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
Italy doesn't recognize Roman Numerals or Suffixis like Jr. or Sr.... (which is funny because the last sovereign was the III) nor can any two men in a direct line have the same name...
So.. since my dad and I DO have the same name... ONE of us... would have to change theirs... Now, I would make him walk his A** down to the Essex County Superior court and file... but then I would have to change all his records as well!
So I guess it's me... It can be as simple as dropping the H from Nicholas to Nicolas... But I say... if I'm going to do it... why not DO IT... what'd ya think? Victor Emmanuel?
But seriously... are they just trying to "punk" me!?!
Nicholas aka Nickolas aka Nicolas aka Victor Emmanuel.
Italy doesn't recognize Roman Numerals or Suffixis like Jr. or Sr.... (which is funny because the last sovereign was the III) nor can any two men in a direct line have the same name...
So.. since my dad and I DO have the same name... ONE of us... would have to change theirs... Now, I would make him walk his A** down to the Essex County Superior court and file... but then I would have to change all his records as well!
So I guess it's me... It can be as simple as dropping the H from Nicholas to Nicolas... But I say... if I'm going to do it... why not DO IT... what'd ya think? Victor Emmanuel?
But seriously... are they just trying to "punk" me!?!
Nicholas aka Nickolas aka Nicolas aka Victor Emmanuel.
Would they really do this?? I would think for them to force someone to change their name, it would have to have been when he/she was born, and would need to be in Italy.
As for Vittorio, he was the king, and if I'm not mistaken, at the time there was no law against it, but it wasn't done by the citizens.
Apparently they make exceptions for those of us who already have these "strange" names. I was born a Jr, my Italian citizenship was recognized as a Jr, and my Italian passport lists my name just as my US one does, with Jr after my surname. No one at the consulate made the slightest fuss concerning my name.
Now, if my wife and I were to move to Italy and then have another child, I am sure we would be expected to follow the rules...
The saving grace is that appendages attached to names such as 111 or Jr. or even Sr. like everything else was legallyl reserved for Royalty and Nobility and like everything else it suffered from plebian insistence on being considered important by imitating what was necessary for legal purposes and making it irrelevant inthe grand scheme of things. =Peter=
Thanks for the very funny post! I see you are taking this major inconvenience with good humor, something that could help us all get through the citizenship process more gracefully.
Thanks again, and best of luck with your new name, whatever it may be!
Carmine... I'm bringing you with me to my next appointment...
Actually ... I am going to get all of my paperwork in order... and THEN I am going to go in again... and just MAKE SURE... they need me to really do it...
Meanwhile... I start my first Italian Class on Wednesday!
You won't have to change your name. My son is an Italian citizen, and his son shares his father's name. When he goes to the consulate to register his son's birth, his son will be registered with the name that appears on his birth certificate. The consulate may not like it, but a son sharing his father's name is not illegal in the U.S.--where the birth took place and was registered--and the birth certificate rules. (BTW, my grandson's birth certificate does not have either Jr. or II, so their names are exactly alike.)
Dear Caprio while learning grammar since to learn by rote and repition rquires daily use of whatever you learn in Italian and that is difficult in a country where little is spoken openly and overtly save for buying something in an Italian salumeria where the sales clerk can speak Italian.
However if you rad an Italian newspaper daily you will slowlybegin to understand and know Italian despite not speaking it often. At first it will be gibberish but as you read and learn vocabulary by consulting an Italian Dictionary at your ready whikle rerading the newspaper a word or phrase may convey the idea of what yhour reading thus enabling yhou to decipher words more easily.
Okay... I'm nervous about the name thing again...I have almost all of my documentation together... and the one sticking point is that I have the same name as my father... (I have to worry about SOMETHING - yesterday it was that my apostle UPS package was rerouted and delayed - It arrived today - crisis averted... )
How do you think I should fill out my application...? Nicholas XXX XXX, Jr?
What's crazy is that I'm going through my MOM's side of the family... my Dad isn't even applying. (Do I leave the Jr. off? It is on my US Passport and my driver's license)
Ultimately, it is what is on your US birth certificate that counts. It is nearly impossible to get the consulate to recognize you under any name other than exactly what is on your current birth certificate.
If your US birth certificate says "Nicholas Caprio Jr" then that is what you use on the jus sanguinis application and that is what Italy will use on all of your documents.
Do your birth certificate, passport, and driver's license all have the same name on them? If not, you may be asked to amend the passport and/or driver's license...
Carmine
My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me!
Nicholas Eugene Caprio, Jr. - on all his docs my dad is
Nicholas Eugene Caprio.
I have been reading the comune website forums and there is quite a debate about JUNIOR and Roman numbers and such since in Italy the law is that you can only have 3 names - First Middle Last... and that Junior isn't recognized as a "name" but rather a modified... which isn't recognized... so... if it isn't recognized... my name becomes the same as my living father... a violation of law #35... which they report to "the public prosecutor" ::SCARY::
Anyway - how di you do it? And which consulate did you go through?
I applied through the New York City consulate and I didn't do, say, or request anything special. My New York birth certificate says "Jr", as does my Connecticut driver's license, my US passport, my social security card and Connecticut marriage certificate. I filled out the jus sanguinis application with "Jr."
When New York approved my application, the letter I received was addressed to Jr and my Italian passport (see below) as well as my Codice Fiscale card were created with Jr; all without me ever raising the subject.
Carmine
My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me!
ncaprio wrote:
I have been reading the comune website forums and there is quite a debate about JUNIOR and Roman numbers and such since in Italy the law is that you can only have 3 names - First Middle Last... and that Junior isn't recognized as a "name" but rather a modified... which isn't recognized... so... if it isn't recognized... my name becomes the same as my living father... a violation of law #35... which they report to "the public prosecutor" ::SCARY::
I think you will be fine with your name as it is. Am not so sure about that law you mentioned though about only being allowed 3 names. My son has 4 names, and every one of them is listed on his Italian birth record.
Okay... I am a moron! I just realized I am applying on my MOTHER'S SIDE... here's what the LA Consulate Website says...
IN ACCORDANCE TO ITALIAN LAW THE SON/DAUGHTER MAY NOT HAVE THE EXACT SAME FIRST NAME OF THE LIVING FATHER FROM WHOM HE/SHE DERIVES THE ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP. THE ITALIAN LAW DOES NOT ALLOW NUMERALS IN THE FIRST, MIDDLE OR LAST NAME. IF YOU HAVE IT YOU MUST AMEND THE CERTIFICATE IN THE COURT WHERE THE VITAL RECORD WAS ISSUED
"...from whom he/she is deriving citizenship..."is the most important part... I'm not deriving citizenship from my Father... (although I could - but it would be much more complicated).. so it's not an issue!
Okay - now back to your regularly scheduled programing!
From 12th October 1946, the national anthem of Italy has been the "Canto degli Italiani" (Chant of the Italians), written in the Autumn of 1847 by a Genoese student and patriot Goffredo Mameli, and set to music in Turin by another Genoese, Michele Novaro. Born during an atmosphere of patriotic fervo...
