Positivo/Negativo definition?

[weixiehong]

Hi all,

I know this must have been asked, but what is the so-called "positivo/negativo" that I've seen mentioned before?

Is it just basically a letter from the comune used for consulate appointments to deal with date discrepancies? Are there fixed information details on this or does it vary? Is there a proper term for it or is it just something people on forums like this made up for convenience?

Thanks in advance.

[jennabet]

Hi all,

I know this must have been asked, but what is the so-called "positivo/negativo" that I've seen mentioned before?

Is it just basically a letter from the comune used for consulate appointments to deal with date discrepancies? Are there fixed information details on this or does it vary? Is there a proper term for it or is it just something people on forums like this made up for convenience?

Thanks in advance.

Good question weixiehong. I can't provide an answer but I've also wondered about this myself. I have been directly involved in recognition cases at two consulates, my own at the Philadelphia consulate and my companion's at the San Francisco consulate and I can't say that either one has ever mentioned anything like a "positive/negative" letter. I suspect that this term, whether it's actually required or not, got started by someone who used the New York Consulate and assumes it must apply across the board but actually there is no proof that it does. How very astute of you to recognize this as something to question.

[weixiehong]

Haha. Thanks jennabet. At the very least I can educate people with my own ignorance

From what I seem to gather, it's used primarily to get around birth date discrepancies. So for instance (and like my case), an Italian birth cert. has one date, but all US docs have another. So rather than go through trying to amend each and every US document, people try to get a letter from their ancestor's comune saying there is no person with that name born on that (wrong US document) date...

I could be completely wrong of course, and that's why I was trying to clarify.

[mler]

You're not wrong, weixiehong. That's exactly what it is. If there are no discrepancies, there is no need for such a letter. Sometimes it will be accepted in lieu of an amendment but no guarantees. I was fortunate in that all of my gf's documents lined up, but sometimes there are date or minor name discrepancies that cannot be amended, and this may help.

[weixiehong]

You're not wrong, weixiehong. That's exactly what it is. If there are no discrepancies, there is no need for such a letter. Sometimes it will be accepted in lieu of an amendment but no guarantees. I was fortunate in that all of my gf's documents lined up, but sometimes there are date or minor name discrepancies that cannot be amended, and this may help.

Thanks mler! So I may need one. My great-grandfather's Italian birth cert. says 29 July 1886 but ALL US docs. say 5 July 1886.

So I would write to the comune? How would I ask for it? Just ask them to certify that no person by the name of (my great-grandfather) was born in the comune on the 5 July 1886?

I figure this would be a LOT easier than trying to amend every US document (and from what I hear the naturalization papers are not alterable anyway). Thanks again for the info.

[mler]

I never used one, so I don't know exactly how it works, but I think there were several people who posted about this on the Italian citizenship forum - http://www.italiancitizenship.freeforums.org

They may be able to help. There may also be a template for the request.

Your date discrepancy may be explained by a difference in time between the actual birth and the date the birth was registered by the midwife. Sometimes they waited a while so they could register several births at one time. I know this happened with my husband. His registration was four days after his birth, and it's the registration date that's on his birth certificate. He uses the registration date as his birthdate (consistent with his birth certificate and making him four days younger than he actually is), but many Italians used their actual birth date, which created an inconsistency with the date reported on the birth certificate.

Italians are aware that this was not an infrequent occurrence, and that is why the letter may be helpful.

[weixiehong]

Thank you very much mler. I did not know about the whole registering possibility. Appreciate it