re:origins of rocky marciano

[mezzogiorno62]

doing some research on famous italian americans.regarding the family lines of rocky marciano.born in brockton,mass.in 1923.originally marchegiano.son of pierino(b.about 1894 in ripa tiatina chieti abruzzo)and pasqualina picciuto(b.about 1902 in san bartolomeo in galdo benevento campania).i've checked the us census records for 1930 and 1940 but i can't find them in brockton,although they lived there continually after they arrived here ca.world war 1.tried both marchegiano and marciano and find nothing.if anyone out there can suggest anything i havent tried please do.as we all know,rocky died in a plane crash in 1969.pierino died in 1973 and pasqualina in 1986.probably married ca.1920-1923.thanks

[Tessa78]

Here is the family in 1940 US Census in Brockton, MA
Looks like a phonetic spelling of the surname..

Peter Markajohn
United States Census, 1940
Name Peter Markajohn
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Ward 2, Brockton, Brockton City, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States
Gender Male
Age 45
Marital Status Married
Race (Original) White
Race White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Head
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birthplace Italy
Birth Year (Estimated) 1895
Last Place of Residence Same House
Peter Markajohn Head M 45 Italy
Lena Markajohn Wife F 38 Italy
Rocco Markajohn Son M 16 Massachusetts
Alice Markajohn Daughter F 14 Massachusetts
Consteta Markajohn Daughter F 12 Massachusetts
Elizabeth Markajohn Daughter F 8 Massachusetts
Louis Markajohn Son M 6 Massachusetts


***AND ***

In the 1930 US Census...

Peter Marskigeno
United States Census, 1930
Name Peter Marskigeno
Event Type Census
Event Year 1930
Event Place Brockton, Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States
Gender Male
Age 34
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race (Original) White
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1896
Birthplace Italy
Immigration Year 1911
Father's Birthplace Italy
Mother's Birthplace Italy
Peter Marskigeno Head M 34 Italy
Lena Marskigeno Wife F 28 Italy
Concerta Marskigeno Daughter F 2 Massachusetts
Alice Marskigeno Daughter F 4 Massachusetts
Rocco Marskigeno Son M 6 Massachusetts

T.

[mezzogiorno62]

thanks.thats an odd one.who would have thought? how did marchegiano become markajohn? someones need to anglicize it i guess.it always amazes me how italian surnames get mangled so badly as theyre really very simple-all phonetics,unlike,for example, polish surnames with all their consonants.i could understand polish or similiar sounding surnames being americanized or mispelled-but not italian surnames which are mostly vowels and quite easy to sound out.like smith or jones.makes no sense.

[Tessa78]

If a clerk/census-taker hears Marchegiano pronounced by an Italian immigrant it would be: Mar/ke/ja/ne - so I think what the census-taker wrote was not far from what (s)he heard...

T.

[mezzogiorno62]

still,even a census taker of the time would have known"markajohn"was not an italian surname.and after 3o years or so in america pierino would probably have been able to spell and write his surname marchegiano.he was probably fluent enough in english by that time to have corrected any misspelling of the family surname.it doesnt appear that the family ever used the surname"markajohn" in any capacity.once rocky started becoming famous he simply went from marchegiano to marciano.but one can only guess at the logic here.

[jennabet]

If you think Italian names contain a lot of vowels, Rocky Marciano's sister Alice married into the Pereira family of Portuguese origins, as there are probably more Portuguese from Brockton than Italians. Alice's son, Bobby Pereira was a personal friend of mine whom I met in the early 70's while we were both working in Washington, DC, he as a pharmaceutical salesman. He was proud of his uncle and always told new acquaintances that he was Rocky Marciano's nephew, and always using the spelling MARCIANO. Attached is Alice's obituary with some info about the family:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/southo ... =168287022

[mezzogiorno62]

interesting.rockys brother peter still lives in brockton i believe.50 or 60 years ago brockton was heavily italian.the demographics were totally different then.swedes,lithuanians,poles,armenians,french canadians,irish,italians,jews,etc.today mostly hispanic,cape verdean,haitian,etc.i live 15 miles from brockton and i'm there daily.rocky would be totally lost in the brockton of today.i found the burial lot of pasqualina(picciuto)marchegiano's parents at calvary cemetery in brockton.a site called a million graves i believe.couldnt find them at find a grave. couldn't find rocky's parents pierino and pasqualina in brockton-unless theyre buried elsewhere.luigi and concetta,pasqualina's parents,are buried at calvary cemetery.luigi was born in 1871 and died in 1942.concetta was born in 1872 and died in 1936.can't find the parents of pierino marchegiano.most likely they died in ripa teatina.no mention of them here.

[jennabet]

Small world. I know well another Italian family from Brockton and spent some time there myself.

[mezzogiorno62]

curious about pierino's family origins in ripa teatina.i'll send an email for his birth and his parents marriage to the civil records office there.theres a memorial there to rocky.pasqualina was from san bartolomeo in galdo in benevento-just south of chieti province abruzzi,where pierino originated.genealogical ancestries of italian american celebrities would make a great book.

[jennabet]

thanks.thats an odd one.who would have thought? how did marchegiano become markajohn? someones need to anglicize it i guess.it always amazes me how italian surnames get mangled so badly as theyre really very simple-all phonetics,unlike,for example, polish surnames with all their consonants.i could understand polish or similiar sounding surnames being americanized or mispelled-but not italian surnames which are mostly vowels and quite easy to sound out.like smith or jones.makes no sense.

No, markajohn is not an Anglicization. Abruzzese immigrants as well as all immigrants from southern Italy did not speak what we know today as modern Italian. They spoke Dialect (dialetto) and in dialetto often the vowel on the end is dropped off. Today in the Provinces (Provinces being the term used in Italy for NOT a big city), Italians speak both modern Italian and their own dialect, depending on whom they're talking to. A student of modern Italian today would not understand everything an Italian says when he's speaking in dialect. The census worker heard the name Marchegiano spoken in dialect and wrote exactly what he heard. My companion's grand-father's name from Calabria was also mangled on a census because in 1910 the family was speaking dialect.

[mezzogiorno62]

i totally understand this.very familiar with dialect as opposed to standard italian.italian was not standardized at the time of the mass immigration in the 1880s to the 1920s.even today local dialects take precedence over standard italian.my paternal italian grandparents spoke in dialect(grandfather in neapolitan and grandmother in sicilan).but somehow they managed to merge those linguistic differences into a mutually understandable language.its just odd that by 1940 when there were household members (rocky was 16) old enough to write and spell correctly in english,that such a mangling of the marchegiano surname was possible.the census taker must have been familiar with the final vowels of surnames having a tendency to be dropped,and that no such surname like"markajohn" would have existed.i also saw pierino's draft registration(ancestry) from either ww1 or ww2.he was able to sign his name.it is what it is but still doesn't make much sense.the census taker heard the same thing as other italian immigrants would have heard,but even in their lack of education pierino's fellow italians would have known "markajohn" was way off.

[jennabet]

genealogical ancestries of italian american celebrities would make a great book.

There is a chapter in my book which I referenced above called L'Abruzzo a Hollywood (Abruzzo in Hollywood) with some of the following info:

Stars of Abruzzese origin have occupied a significant share of Hollywood's glory since the forties.

Perry Como -- from Palena

Screenwriter John Fante -- from Torricella Peligna

Writer Pietro Di Donato

Henry Mancini, the composer -- roots in Scanno L'Aquila

Penny Marshal (real name Penelope Masciarelli) and her father Gary -- roots in San Martino sulla Marrucina, Chieti

Beverly D'Angelo companion of Al Pacino studied in her parents region of Abruzzo. By the say, I saw Al Pacino getting into his car on the Lungomare in Pescara three blocks from my house.

Alan Alda (real name Alan D'Abruzzo) - parents are from L'Aquila

Annabella Sciorra -- from Carunchio. Didn't lose contact with her family's town of origin and goes there every summer to rest.

Don Ameche (real name Amici).

Madonna (Luise Veronica Ciccone) -- Pacentro, L'Aquila

Dean Martin (Dino Crocetti) -- Montesilvano, Pescara

It's difficult to track down all the direct references but there are many more Abruzzese in Hollywood as well as in the US Congress.

[jennabet]

It would not have been necessary for your grand-parents to merge linguistic differences from Naples and Sicily. All Italians born in Italy with the ability to speak their own dialects will always understand the dialect spoken in other regions, provinces, towns, etc. Only a non-native, modern Italian speaker would have difficulty understanding any dialect at all from any region.

[mezzogiorno62]

add robert deniro to the list.his paternal great grandparents were abbruzzese as well (ferrazano).he's often thought of as italian,but he's only one quarter.his father was half italian and half irish.and his mother of english,dutch,french background.he only had one italian grandparent-his paternal grandfather.i knew madonna had roots in pacentro.she's of the same background as myself.italian on her paternal side and french canadian on her maternal.we even have common ancestry,as the original french colonists only numbered several thousand and we're all inter related through those early 17th century colonists in quebec.interesting.

[jennabet]

its just odd that by 1940 when there were household members (rocky was 16) old enough to write and spell correctly in english,that such a mangling of the marchegiano surname was possible.the census taker must have been familiar with the final vowels of surnames having a tendency to be dropped,and that no such surname like"markajohn" would have existed.

I agree with this but in all likelihood the American census worker (perhaps Irish in Massachusetts) had no familiarity whatsoever with the Italian language or the correct spelling of Italian names so wrote down exactly what he heard.