Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tartaglia

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by rfiorille »

Hi Erudita,

It was my thought too that this wetnurse Felicia had probably nursed another baby in the interm as I’m sure there were many possible reasons that another baby’s mother may have been unable to breastfeed. With the infant mortality rate so high among abandoned children it’s nice to know that Adelaide survived, married, had children and still has descendants living today. I started looking through successive diversi acts for this town and found multiple acts for other proietti, as I have learned abandoned children were usually called based on another post from John Armellino. I am beginning to understand what a common occurrence proietti were at that time. There are roughly 1 to 2 acts per year. It seems to be true for Sant’Elia that adoptions were uncommon there as well. After a quick glance, I do not see anything that looks like an adoption record in the diversi or vari acts for the town in that time period for anyone.

I’m trying to find clues as to why Adelaide may have moved from Sant’Elia to Pietracatella and then married someone from San Giovanni in Galdo. All three comune boarder one another, so it’s reasonable that she would have travelled there for multiple reasons. I searched the Matrimoni, memorandum notificazioni ed opposizioni in Pietracatella for Adelaide Rubino, but they give no more information than I already have. They never list her profession which I thought might be a clue to why she moved around.

I had imagined too, as you had suggested, that Adelaide was born in a town other than Sant’Elia. I believe I came to that conclusion after you had written that d’Ancona is a surname in Campobasso. After searching the website italia.indettaglio.it I found the surname d’Ancona occurs (today) in Campobasso, Ferrazzano, Vinchiaturo and Sepino. Maybe I’m wrong, but I imagine for a woman pregnant out of wedlock living in a city as large as Campobasso it would be fairly easy to abandon her baby someplace in a part of town where the she was unknown, but living in the smaller italian villages where everybody knows pretty much everybody the abandonment would seem to be much more difficult, or even in a neighboring town, without people knowing. Unless maybe, as you explain, she worked on an estate and was and wasn’t seen very much within the town. However, it’s a bit of a strange thought thinking of all these women sneaking from town to town to abandon their babies in order to keep from bringing shame on her and her family. In any case, I need to do further reading on the subject.
erudita74 wrote:So, if all of the subsequent records you find for Adelaide indicate that her parents were uncertain or unknown, then I believe she was not reclaimed by the natural parents, or even by just one of them, and that she was not adopted by another family. I think that, if the child had been adopted, you would find paperwork to that effect.
I would have to agree with you. I don’t believe she was adopted. I’m curious however, and perhaps John Armellino can give will also know and could provide an example, were adoption records normally amended to a child’s birth act? Or would they have their own act in the year in which the child was adopted?
One thing I find strangest among Adelaide’s life is concerning her name in records later in her life. It is true that wherever it lists Adelaide’s parents, it consistently lists them as genitori incerti. Where there is much inconsistency however is where Adelaide’s name appears in records later in her life. I know it is not uncommon for certain information (usually age) to be recorded incorrectly the later in the person’s life the document is written. But I just find Adelaide to be such an unusual case. From her first child born in 1866 to her third child in 1875 she is listed as Adelaide Rubino. The last two acts for her children born 1877 and 1882 list her as Angelica di Tubo and Angelica di Donato (a very common surname in San Giovanni in Galdo). And her second child, whose birth act has her as Adelaide Rubino, his death act lists his mother as Angela Tubia. I’ve ruled out the possibility of her death before her last two children were born. Plus, the marriage acts for her first two children in 1890 and 1894 (after the last her last two children were born) list her as “di Adelaide Rubino” - further indication that she had not died. And to me, the strangest occurrence is her name on the death act for her last child. She is listed as Angelica Tommasone.

I’m not expecting any explanation for this. I guess I’m just curious if you or anyone who reads this has seen such variation in records as such.

Erudita, thank you for sharing the information about your grandfather and your uncle. Great examples that help demonstrate what you are explaining.

Just for reference, I’ve added links and two notes on records for Adelaide’s children showing the variations in how her name occurs in the documents.

Maria Pasquale Rossodivita birth act no. 2 (Adelaide Rubino)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 0.jpg.html

Maria Pasquale Rossodivita marriage act no. 8 (Adelaide Rubino)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 0.jpg.html

Francesco Rossodivita birth act no. 4 (Adelaide Rubino)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 1.jpg.html

Francesco Rossodivita marriage act no. 9 (Adelaide Rubino)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 4.jpg.html

Francesco Rossodivita death certificate lists mother as Angela Tubia.
Filomena Rossodivita birth act no. 50 (Adelaide Rubino)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 1.jpg.html

Filomeno Rossodivita act no. 28 (Angelica di Tubo)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 8.jpg.html

Filomeno Rossodivita marriage act no. 4 (Angelica di Tubo)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Filomeno Rossodivita death certificate lists mother as Angelic DeTeto.

Michelina Rossodivita birth act no. 29 (Angelica di Donato)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 2.jpg.html

Michelina Rossodivita death act no. 25 (Angelica Tommasone)
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
erudita74
Master
Master
Posts: 8460
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by erudita74 »

Robert
I just got in and haven't really had a chance to study the records you posted in detail. In quickly looking them over though, I do see that Adelaide was a "contadina" by occupation. I know in your long reply above you said that you never found an occupation for her, and yet I see it in Pasquale's birth record, in Francesco's, in Filomena's and even in Filomeno's where her name is given as Angelica di Tubo. I need some time to scrutinize the records more closely before I make addditional comments.
Erudita
User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by rfiorille »

Thank you Erudita.
I had noticed the occupation of contadina as well in those later records. I should have been more clear in that I was hoping to find some idea of what her occupation was before she was married that might possibly lead to an explanation as to why she had moved from Sant'Elia to Pietracatella, or how she met Domenico Rossodivita from San Giovanni in Galdo. I'm sure no occupation would give a guarantee that she would need to travel between towns, I just thought it might give a clue.
There is absolutely no rush on this. Plus, I have really enjoyed all the information you've provided. I know I say this with every post, but your time and effort is truly appreciated! I look forward to hearing any more insight from you!
Robert
erudita74
Master
Master
Posts: 8460
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by erudita74 »

Robert-a question about the following:
"I’m trying to find clues as to why Adelaide may have moved from Sant’Elia to Pietracatella and then married someone from San Giovanni in Galdo"

what proof do you have that Adelaide moved from Sant'Elia to Pietracatella? did you locate a marriage record for her and Domenico there? I quickly went through those records but didn't see one, but we had a lot of storms today, and I did have to keep shutting down my computer, so I could have missed it. I also don't see a marriage record for them among the San Giovanni records or the Sant'Elia online records.

Since the mother's name in the 1877 birth record of Filomeno and his 1892 marriage record was consistently given as Angelica di Tubo in those two records, I began to question whether the father Domenico could be the same person or two different men with the same first and last name. In the marriage record, Angelica is even present to give her consent to the marriage, so I find it odd that her name was recorded incorrectly, especially since these acts were read aloud for the benefit of those who were illiterate. But I searched for a marriage record of a Domenico R with and Angelica di Tubo and couldn't find one. I would assume you also tried looking for such a record. Also I don't even see the "di Tubo" name existing as a surname.

As to the discrepancy between Angelica di Donato and Angelica Tomasone in Michelina's records, the informants on the death record were just other peasants and not family members and may not have known the correct surname. Info in death records is the least reliable. I also don't see the surname Tomasone as occurring in the town, so I would think the di Donato was more accurate in this instance. So, again I questioned whether Michelina was the daughter of the correct Domenico. Can't even match these people up based on street names in these records.

I would think that, if Adelaide had her name legally changed at some point, it would have been indicated somewhere-in the margin of one of the records, in a second or third part of the records for a given year, etc. Also these records are not extracted copies of the originals-extracted copies of birth records, for example, would have been used for a marriage and, since they were hand-copied from the originals, there was always the possibility that a town clerk had made an error in formulating the new copy, even though it was supposed to conform to the original and was stated to have been. I'm completely at a loss for an intellectual explanation, Robert, and really don't know what to tell you.

Erudita
User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by rfiorille »

Hi Erudita. I'm sorry for such a late response. I was out of town all weekend and part of last week and didn't have time to reply.
erudita74 wrote:Robert-a question about the following:
"I’m trying to find clues as to why Adelaide may have moved from Sant’Elia to Pietracatella and then married someone from San Giovanni in Galdo"

what proof do you have that Adelaide moved from Sant'Elia to Pietracatella? did you locate a marriage record for her and Domenico there?
I did find a marriage act for Adelaide and Domenico in Pietracatella, but I did not put a link to the record in my last post. It says Adelaide lives in Pietracatella but was born in Sant'Elia. The marriage act is here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 7.jpg.html

I also found the notificazioni from San Giovanni in Galdo here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

and here

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

and the processetti from Pietracatella here (Immagine 50-57):

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 2.jpg.html
erudita74 wrote:Since the mother's name in the 1877 birth record of Filomeno and his 1892 marriage record was consistently given as Angelica di Tubo in those two records, I began to question whether the father Domenico could be the same person or two different men with the same first and last name. In the marriage record, Angelica is even present to give her consent to the marriage, so I find it odd that her name was recorded incorrectly, especially since these acts were read aloud for the benefit of those who were illiterate.
I had also considered the possibility of there being another Domenico Rossodivita when I began researching Adelaide's identity. So I had checked all the indices of birth records between 1832 - 1860 and found that there was only one Domenico Rossodivita born in San Giovanni in Galdo. I also checked all the indices of marriage records from 1857 - 1877 and found no marriage record for Domenico Rossodivita in San Giovanni in Galdo either. Perhaps I can be more exhaustive in my search for the existence of another Domenico Rossodivita, but I believe there is only one. Also, Rossodivita is a common name in San Giovanni in Galdo, but it's certainly not one of the most populous ones.
erudita74 wrote:As to the discrepancy between Angelica di Donato and Angelica Tomasone in Michelina's records, the informants on the death record were just other peasants and not family members and may not have known the correct surname. Info in death records is the least reliable. I also don't see the surname Tomasone as occurring in the town, so I would think the di Donato was more accurate in this instance....I'm completely at a loss for an intellectual explanation, Robert, and really don't know what to tell you.

Erudita
That's a great point regarding the informants on the death records. I think there are many possible explanations for the different names. What they are, I don't know. But, after all this, I've come to believe that Adelaide perhaps knew about the story of the note left pinned on her chest and maybe at one point in her life started using the name Angelica - for whatever reason, I'm not sure. Perhaps the story of her birth was passed orally to her and she was told of the name d'Ancona, but perhaps it was never remembered correctly or it got morphed into di Tubo. Why her name Adelaide Rubino wouldn't be consistently used throughout her life, I have no idea. These ideas are of course all just speculation...and, just like you, I'm at a loss for an intellectual explanation. We may never know the answers to all these questions, but I do know that I truly appreciate your help in bringing the story along as far as it's come.

Thank you, thank you again for all your help and expertise with this story!

Robert
erudita74
Master
Master
Posts: 8460
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by erudita74 »

Robert
You definitely are a thorough researcher, and it's been my pleasure to help you. When one finds an abandoned individual in one's ancestry, one never really gets a complete and accurate picture, even after doing the amount of research you have done. My dad, for example, was the oldest of my grandfather's sons, yet he was not named for my grandfather's supposed father who had returned with the mother to reclaim him. The only place I found my dad's first name was in the family of the wetnurse, behind whose door my grandfather had been abandoned. My dad's first name was the first name of the wetnurse's father-in-law and a number of her children-a few had died and she kept using the first name over and over for subsequent children. So possibly my grandfather considered this woman's father-in-law to be his own grandfather, or he may have been very close with the son who had the the same first name and was close in age to himself. I will never know for sure, but these are the only logical explanations for his choice of my dad's first name. I know for whom all of my dad's siblings were named. One was even named for my grandfather's mother, but none for her husband, my grandfather's "supposed father."

Robert, I know you'll keep digging, as I have. Hopefully, at some point, some new info will be located to shed more light on Adelaide's life. Good luck with your future research.

Erudita
User avatar
rfiorille
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 99
Joined: 05 Feb 2005, 00:00
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Handwriting decipher Sant' Elia a Pianisi, Rubino, Tarta

Post by rfiorille »

Thank you Erudita! All the best of luck in your future research too!
Post Reply