U.S. names versus Italian Names

[PeterTimber]

Using Ancestry.com as a source in their Itao-American naming discussion referred to the transformation of Vincenzo to Jimmy as a matter of speculation amongst Italian in the US.

For my part JIMMY was a generic name for addressing unknown people for the time, a light for a cigarette, directions etc etc. I remember as a kid hearing "Jimmy" used in the movies for the same reasons. Thus it was easy to refer Vincenzo as Jimmy since this would be the first name that came to mind since there was no easy equivalent to the Vincenzo name and "vinny" was still Italian sounding. =Peter=

[JohnArmellino]

For my part JIMMY was a generic name for addressing unknown people for the time, a light for a cigarette, directions etc etc. I remember as a kid hearing "Jimmy" used in the movies for the same reasons. Thus it was easy to refer Vincenzo as Jimmy since this would be the first anemk that came to mind since there was no easy equivalent to the Vincenzo name and "vinny" was still Italian sounding.

Interesting theory. However, it does beg the question as to why the name Vincenzo -- which has an English equivalent in Vincent -- was often anglicized to James or Jimmy, while other more difficult Italian names -- such as those without English equivalents (e.g., Pellegrino or Costanzo) -- were not. I do like the archaic use of "Jimmy" -- reminds me of that Seinfeld episode. LOL

[adifresco]

In Italy, it's not uncommon to use the nickname "Cenz" for Vincenzo. In dialect (at least Southern Italian dialects), Cenz is pronounced as Genz. To the American ear Genz sounded somewhat like James, hence Vincenzo became James.

Aha, I knew there had to be a reason! I'm glad I came across this topic because I've always wondered why he went by James. My middle name (as well as my father's and grandfather's) is James and it comes from my grandfather's grandfather Vincenzo. It all makes sense now! Thanks so much.

[oilman19]

I had a cousin, born Vincent, in U.S., in 1914, had 2 siblings born in Italy. In the 1920 census, he was James. In the 1930 census, he was Vincent. His brother, whom I know, always knew him as Vincent. I'm not sure how "James" ever ended up on the census. It is still a mystery.

Jim

[Squigy]

My GG Grandfather was Vincenzo, and he too went by James sometimes (he also went by Vincent).

I think it's kind of funny that they tried to Americanize their names so much. My GG Grandfather (Vincenzo Fiorelli) was a stereotypical Italian; Swarthy, Mustachioed, with a thick accent, and he was even a plumber. I have to wonder if he really thought he would be more accepted if his name was James Flowers.

[PeterTimber]

John in answer to your question why Vincenzo and not Pellegrino or Costanzo can best be answered by Volume of Vincenzo's as opposed to other lesser used Italian first names which in some cases also were knighted with American first names such as "CONNIE" for Costanzo.

Sicilians comprised 40% of all Immigrants into the USA and the name Vincenzo concurrently was a dominant first name in Sicily. With so many
Sicilians concentrated in urban areas the speculative conversion to "JIMMY" spread easily, particularly due to its generic use by blue collar social usages in speaking to a stranger way back in the 1920's and 30's nd perhaps even during pre and post WW1 periods as well. =Peter=

[johnnyonthespot]

I think it's kind of funny that they tried to Americanize their names so much.

The question is, who or what was the driving force for these anglicizations? Was it the immigrant who wanted to fit in, or those already here who didn't want to take the trouble to learn how to pronounce the Italian names?

I have always wondered, why did we feel the need to rechristen Cristoforo Columbo as Christopher Columbus? Antonio Stradavari as Stradivarius?Why rename a great city such as Roma to Rome? Firenze to Florence? Genova to Genoa, Venezia to Venice, and so on?

Was this a "we're (Americans) better than you, so we will decide what to call you" thing or what? Certainly, in a majority of cases, the Italian spelling could have been maintained with no effort on anyone's part. Roma -> Rome? Give me a break!

[PeterTimber]

Carmine you have to realize that Italians were the first Mediterranean nationality and Catholic to enter the USA in large numbers. The USA was then a nordic based culture, decidedly celtic, English and followed by Irish and some Scandinavians. .

The English dominance included the Celtic perversity of casting anything or anyone that was different as being inferior. The Irish while socially inferior to the english were accepted into their society due to their ability to speak english and displaying Celtic physical characteritics of height, complexion, hair and eye coloring etc. The Germans displaying similar characteristics easily spoke english (hence the Brooklyn acccent made famous by the germanic-english speech patterns of the EAST SIDE KIDS led by Leo Gorcy in the 1930's films ....This is why New Yorkers pronounce Houston street as (Phonetic HOWSTUN) and the rest of America pronounce it (phonetic HUSTUN). But in each case followed similar cultural patterns of family, church going, foods, clothing, hygiene, dress etC.

This English sense of superiority translated everything into english...so that Giovanni and Sebastiano Caboto became english overnight. and all europe capitals were anglicized along with any other foreign word that entered their culture including foreign names. The discrimination against Italians extended itself to all non-nordics so much so that their first names were immediately rejected and converted to english. =Peter=

[Squigy]

I think it's kind of funny that they tried to Americanize their names so much.

The question is, who or what was the driving force for these anglicizations? Was it the immigrant who wanted to fit in, or those already here who didn't want to take the trouble to learn how to pronounce the Italian names?

I have always wondered, why did we feel the need to rechristen Cristoforo Columbo as Christopher Columbus? Antonio Stradavari as Stradivarius?Why rename a great city such as Roma to Rome? Firenze to Florence? Genova to Genoa, Venezia to Venice, and so on?

Was this a "we're (Americans) better than you, so we will decide what to call you" thing or what? Certainly, in a majority of cases, the Italian spelling could have been maintained with no effort on anyone's part. Roma -> Rome? Give me a break!

Exactly! Why is it so hard to say his [Christopher Columbus) Italian name?? I hate that!

Peter:

I agree 100% with everything you said. One of the biggest problems is that ITALIANS rarely complain about prejudice. And the few who DO are quickly silenced. People just shrugg it off (think Jersey Shore, for example).

[PeterTimber]

Squigy the TV progam JERSEY SHORE is something typical of blue collar Italian Americans as are other young people of other ethnic backgrounds with similar limited horizons. What we have to be thankful for is that the Jersey Shore crowd is not associated with the Mafia. Perhaps leaving the Mafia image behind is a step up? =Peter=