Ethnicity vs. skin tone

[darkerhorse]

Eye color might be recorded for males on some military records.

You can choose unknown in the eye color calculator.

[darkerhorse]

Looks like you're right about melanin and olive skin. I guess melanin is involved in both skin color and undertones. It's confusing.

"One of the advantages of having an olive skin tone is that it is not as sensitive to the sun as fairer types of complexion.

The reason is that olive skin contains more melanin, which not only gives it its color but also absorbs solar radiation, giving the skin natural protection from the harmful ultraviolet rays of the sun.

Moreover, olive-skinned people tan more easily than those with lighter skin. Olive skin also tends to be oily, which protects it from the harsh elements of the environment. Olive-toned skin tends to have a slower skin aging process, giving it a smooth, glowing, and youthful appearance."

[darkerhorse]

FYI

https://thosegraces.com/olive-skin-tone-ethnicity/

Note the list of ethnic groups/countries with olive skin. Odds are your father had one or more ancestors from one or more of these places. I wonder how recent it would have had to be?

Asian Indians are included but not North American Indians who have more ruddy undertones. However, another site mentions that some North American Indians have light skin with olive undertones. All in all, I'd say North American Indian ancestry is a long shot.

[MarcuccioV]

FYI

https://thosegraces.com/olive-skin-tone-ethnicity/

Note the list of ethnic groups/countries with olive skin. Odds are your father had one or more ancestors from one or more of these places. I wonder how recent it would have had to be?

Asian Indians are included but not North American Indians who have more ruddy undertones. However, another site mentions that some North American Indians have light skin with olive undertones. All in all, I'd say North American Indian ancestry is a long shot.

Depending on the matrix, I have just about all of the listed ethnicities, at least to a trace extent. I'd assume it can't be terribly deep, but I've traced most of his lines quite a ways back (between the 14th-17th century). Unless there is a serious error somewhere in my research, odds are more likely an "interloper" of some sort.

On the Italian side (like many of us here) I'm stuck in the middle of the 19th century.

My paternal grandfather was obviously their father, the physical resemblance is strong. So it goes deeper than him. As far as HIS father (my GGf), I see some resemblance to me, so it's probably not him, either, but I don't know for sure...

I'll see if I can find any military records denoting eye color, thanks for that suggestion.

My skin is very oily (a trait the article mentions) as was my father's. My mother's (despite being very olive) was dry. She and my grandfather both had fairly severe plaque psoriasis. Fortunately I do not, only occasional facial rosacea and some seborrheic dermatitis in spots. The SD is related to the oily skin.

[MarcuccioV]

What military records I could find provide the following info:

For my eldest uncle, light complexion, brown hair, gray eyes.
For my grandfather, light complexion, brown hair, blue eyes.
For my great grandfather, no information available.

I'll plug these into the eye color calculator & see what comes up. I will use "undefined" for eye colors I'm not certain of.

[MarcuccioV]

Based on what info I know, my father & his brothers should have blue eyes by a 56+% margin (brown eyes 25%). Their eye colors (sorted by age oldest to youngest) are gray, brown, brown, brown & blue.

I have a couple pics I'll send in a PM. See what you think.

[darkerhorse]

Since looks can be deceiving, I'd focus on genetics.

Are you in touch with the families of your paternal grandparent's siblings? They might have photos or information for comparison.

[darkerhorse]

Some immigration records may record eye color too.

[darkerhorse]

I'm not clear on what you consider "olive skin".

Can you post photos of an Italian with dark skin and olive skin tone versus an Italian with dark skin and no olive skin tone?

Or, do all dark-skinned Italians have olive skin tones in your view?

I's prefer photos of Sicilians but Italians will do.

[MarcuccioV]

I'm not clear on what you consider "olive skin".

Can you post photos of an Italian with dark skin and olive skin tone versus an Italian with dark skin and no olive skin tone?

Or, do all dark-skinned Italians have olive skin tones in your view?

I's prefer photos of Sicilians but Italians will do.

I'd consider any dark Italian to be olive-skinned (including those with North African or Moorish ancestry). But that's just my opinion, so take it as such.

I just got some more photos from my UK DNA match & some of his relatives (who he never knew in life), were very dark like my grandfather. Others appear much lighter. I assume the darker-skinned men (only men, oddly) MAY be tied to my grandfather's family, but that's merely a guess on my part...

The only PURE Sicilians in my family were my uncle's wife's family. She was olive, but light-medium. I did not know her father. Her mother had very Moorish features but was light skinned.

All in all, the more I research the less I know...

[darkerhorse]

That helps clarify. Photos don't have to be of your relatives. They could even be of celebrities.

[MarcuccioV]

That helps clarify. Photos don't have to be of your relatives. They could even be of celebrities.

Not a photo, but a good example would be Dean Martin (Dino Crocetti). Ancestry from Campania (Naples).

Dark and olive in my opinion...

[darkerhorse]

olive oil voice and guinea charm?

[MarcuccioV]

olive oil voice and guinea charm?

Smooooooooooooooth...

[darkerhorse]

What about Signor Abbandando in GF Part II?

The grocer who lets Vito go (the father, not the son).

The son Genco appears more stereotype olivey to me.

Could the father be considered more brownish than olive-skinned?

One reason I ask is that his complexion reminds me of my grandfather's.

The lightning in the scene isn't very good for telling skin tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeDV0rxBq9E