communes in Palermo Ufficio 1 & 2

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Hi Angela, I'm in shock! From your translation I subtracted 24 years from the 1861 marriage date and found Gaspare's birth certificate in Palermo, Sant' Ninfa. I was dreading going through over 500 images and it turns out that it was on the 4th image.
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 68/wk6rQmr
Thanks again!

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi Angela, I'm in shock! From your translation I subtracted 24 years from the 1861 marriage date and found Gaspare's birth certificate in Palermo, Sant' Ninfa. I was dreading going through over 500 images and it turns out that it was on the 4th image.
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 68/wk6rQmr
Thanks again!

Close. What you have located here is Gaspare's baptism record.

Here is Gaspare's original birth record: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 45/wE14EJK
(Page 5 of 282)

Concetta was born on 22 June 1841, Sezione S.Oliva. It's Birth No 468, registered 23 June 1841. Search "Nati"

It's late here so this is all I can do now. You can post the original birth records to our translations forum if you like as I probably won't be able to translate them until later tomorrow as I have a commitment in the morning.

Best to you.

Angela

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Wow, that's awesome! No hurry, again I really appreciate all of your help! I'll have to figure out what I did or didn't do.

[AngelaGrace56]

Wow, that's awesome! No hurry, again I really appreciate all of your help! I'll have to figure out what I did or didn't do.

You clicked on “Nati, allegati” (birth attachments) instead of “Nati” (births). Easily done.
(It was probably serendipitous locating Gaspare's baptism record anyway because I noticed something in the baptism record which wasn't included in the civil records.)

I've had a minute before I need to go out to translate Gaspare's birth record:

Birth No 3: Gaspare Martines
Registered 2 January 1837 in Palermo (Section S. Ninfa)

Appearing before the official was D. Giuseppe Martines, 30 yo, Calzettiere (hosiery/sock maker or merchant?), living S. Giuliano, who presented a baby boy, born from Antonia Nasta, 24 yo, living herein, and from the declarant, her husband, (baby born) on 1 January 1837 at 2 am. The baby was given the name Gaspare.

Right side Column are the baptism details. Baptised on 2 January 1837 in the parish of Santa Croce. (This information was entered on 4 January 1837, after receipt of the baptism attachment you had initially located.)

(So he had the honorific title of Don (Lord) which was often given to people of high social standing in a town. Looking at the Baptism Record you found, his wife is also written with a D. before her name so she would’ve been referred to as Donna (Lady). It doesn’t show this in the Civil Records though.)

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Following on from my previous post here which you may not have seen yet, here is the translation of Concetta Marino's original birth record, which I've just located:

Birth No 468 – Concetta Marino
Registered Comune of Palermo – Sezione Sant’Oliva on 23 June 1841

Appearing was Tommaso Marino, 42 yo, Trafficante ...? Biancheria, (merchant of linen or under garments?) living via Dell’Angelo, who presented a baby girl born from Maria Antonia Tantella, 37 yo, living herein, and from himself the declarant, details as above, on 22 June 1841 in their own house. The baby was given the name of Concetta.

Baptism details in right column: Baptised in the Parish of S. Giacomo, on 22 June 1841.
https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 68/wlNp9aB
Page 129 of 391


And some added info from the Parents' Act of Consent:

Re Gaspare's parents:
Giuseppe Martines, was the son of the deceased Gaspare Martines.
Antonia Nasta, was the daughter of the deceased Benedetto Nasta
They were living in Palermo, Via S. Giuliano as at September 1861.

Re Concetta Marino's parents:
Tommaso Marino, was the son of the deceased Francesco Marino
Maria Antonia Tantella was the daughter of the deceased Simone Tantella.
They were living in Palermo, Santo Vito as at September 1861.

Angela

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Awesome, Angela! I can't thank you enough for all of your help! Now I'm trying to digest all of this info! lol
I think that gives me a link all the way back to the very early 1800's!

When I went to the link above for Gaspare's original birth certificate it came up as: Atto Di Nascita - which translates to: Birth Certificate. And on the right side it has: Indicazione (Indication)? Which has the baptism info? I find it a little difficult reading these records since it only has the babies first name listed at the bottom of the record and the father's first and last name listed after "compars." Also, the mother's name was difficult to read because it was broken up after: "nato da." I find that the birth announcements are a lot easier to read.

And that's interesting that they had the honorary titles of Lord and Lady!

[AngelaGrace56]

Awesome, Angela! I can't thank you enough for all of your help! Now I'm trying to digest all of this info! lol
I think that gives me a link all the way back to the very early 1800's!

When I went to the link above for Gaspare's original birth certificate it came up as: Atto Di Nascita - which translates to: Birth Certificate. No, Atto di Nascita translates to Birth Act which is the original document written in the respective Civil Registry. I can see that google probably translates it to Birth Certificate as do a lot of people who request birth records here, but I do not believe Birth Certificate is an accurate translation of Atto di Nascita.

My understanding is that a “Birth Certificate” (Certificato di Nascita) is a factual certified copy of the “Atto di Nascita – Birth Act) located in the respective Civil Register which is “issued” on request.

And on the right side it has: Indicazione (Indication)? While it does translate to indication, here a better translation would be "information".

Which has the baptism info? Yes, that is where the baptism details are noted.

I find it a little difficult reading these records since it only has the babies first name listed at the bottom of the record and the father's first and last name listed after "comparso" Also, the mother's name was difficult to read because it was broken up after: "nato da." I find that the birth announcements are a lot easier to read. Birth announcements??? I'm not sure what you mean by birth announcements?

And that's interesting that they had the honorary titles of Lord and Lady!

Angela

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Hi Angela,

Thanks for the info! I guess that I was thinking that the Atti di Nascita was an announcement rather than a birth act. But here's a random sample of what type of birth information that I find easier to read:
https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... 27#p338627

Mark

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi Angela,

Thanks for the info! I guess that I was thinking that the Atti di Nascita was an announcement rather than a birth act. But here's a random sample of what type of birth information that I find easier to read:
https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... 27#p338627

Mark

Mark, your link leads me back to this forum i.e. "communes in Palermo Ufficio 1 & 2" on which all the records have the same layout with the father declaring the birth, and the child's name either at the bottom of the first page of the record or at the top of the next page so I am still oblivious as to which birth records start with the name of the child? (I have a special four year old boy who comes and spends at least one day a week with me and we have been out in the sunshine having fun tapping in on a spring, and carrying water to my garden so maybe I'm a bit touched from the sun!!! )

Angela

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Angela,

No, it's me for sure, sorry! I think that I have it figured out now.

Thanks again!

Mark

[AngelaGrace56]

You are most welcome, Mark. I haven't researched Palermo for a while and it's been educational seeing what's on line now and learning a few things along the way.

Angela

[mark4440@comcast.net]

I think that I may have (hopefully) found my great-grandfather, Oreste Lodi all the way up in Mantua. My great aunt, Adelaide (born in Sicily in 1899) said in a letter that her grandfather, Luigi Lodi came from Mantua and that his oldest son, my great-grandfather's brother, was named Senofonte Lodi.
Well I decided to check Mantua tonight and went to an Indice (registri di popolazione) 1800-1900 (Li-Pu) and found a bunch of Lodi's on page 9. Well at the very bottom, there they were! I can definitely make out, Senofonte, the oldest boy as well as his father, Luigi and possibly Oreste (second from the bottom) but I can't tell by the spelling, it appears to be spelled: Orejte. Will you be able to check that for me, please? Sorry, I know that I've been over burdening you! If you're not able to check it I can definitely repost it to the website. If it is them then I'll need to find out how to do further research. I'm not sure what Condizione means, next to each name. Could it be the physical condition that they are in? Thanks again, Angela!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2212671

[mmogno]

Lodi Oreste [son of] Luigi calzolajo (= shoemaker)

[mark4440@comcast.net]

Thank you so much, Emilio, I really appreciate it!

[AngelaGrace56]

Just to add to what mmogno has said:

Luigi, a primary school teacher, (Maestro Elementare​?) was the son of Vincenzo
Senofonte, was a Corporal Major? in the 9th Infantry, son of Luigi
Antenore, was a Soldier in the 68th Infantry, son of Luigi
Adone, was a Tailor (sarto), son of Luigi
Oreste, was a shoe maker (calzolaio), son of Luigi
Empedocle, was a school pupil (scolaro), son of Luigi

I’m not sure what year this was? Wasn’t your Senofonte the Vice Bursar of a boarding school in Potenza/Doctor of Economy or was that a different Senofonte Lodi? Do you know what year the photo you had uploaded was taken?

Angela