De Dominicis or De Dominico Giovanni - Carinola south Italy

[BillieDeKid]

Antonio

Felice per lei che Laura ha trovato queste informazioni. Fiducioso che trova Giovanni anche!

[underground]

Naturalmente Grazie Suanj e grazie BilliedeKid!

E' incredibile, ormai non ci credevo più...lo avete stanato!

Penso che anche Giovanni non tarderà a dare sue notizie.

[BillieDeKid]

Oh sì Antonio. ..........we sa che lei dice il ringraziamento lei a tutto il sul foro. ........for lei siamo molto felici che le informazioni è stato trovata!!! Adesso, Giovanni! Fantastico!!!

[pink67]

Ciao Antonio!!

allora hai controllato i documenti? Che ne pensi??
Hai notato che in ambedue i census dichiara di essere single?
Mentre sulla draft card per la Prima guerra fornisce il nome Teresa come parente piu' prossimo.... Teresa era sua Moglie?

Oggi ho ricercato tanto per vedere se usciva qualcosa di Giovanni, purtroppo nulla di nuovo.....
a questo punto possiamo fare solo delle considerazioni....
Provo a metter giu' i miei pensieri sulla faccenda:

Una cosa che mi è parsa strana è stata la storpiatura così evidente del cognome.... Ora, va bene che tante persone eranno illetterate ed era difficile per loro farsi capire in un'altra lingua ma in sincerità ho pensato che forse Joseph VOLESSE che il suo cognome fosse diverso...
Inoltre se guardi la marea dei Dedominicis/Dedominico/Didomenico/Didominici non se ne trova un'altro con il cognome mutato in Demicis....

Riguardo poi la "sparizione" del fratello qui è proprio un mistero, anche perchè sinceramente fino al 1907 sembravano comunque legati e in frequentazione visto che fornivano i loro nomi a vicenda nei momenti dei loro sbarchi in USA.
Nel 1910 Joseph è già solo e vive a Oxford in Pennsylvania;
Nel 1918 all'epoca della draft Card vive a Avondale , PA
Nel 1920 è sempre solo e vive a Avondale, sempre Pennsylvania
A giugno 1920 chiede il passporto, si ferma in Italia dal 17 luglio 1920 al 22 aprile del 1921
Ho notato che chiede la consegna di questo passporto non all'indirizzo di Avondale bensì a questo indirizzo di Philadelphia:
6324 Vine Street, Philadelphia. Pennsylvania
Forse si potrebbe fare la ricerca inversa e vedere chi abitava nel 1920 a questo indirizzo....
A marzo del 1922 chiede il secondo passaporto e dichiara come residenza Toughkenamon PA, dichiara inoltre di tornare in USA entro 1 anno......

a me sembra proprio impossibile che non facesse nessun tipo di riferimento al fratello (che non scordiamo aveva moglie e figli in Italia!) con i suoi familiari!!!!
Allora faccio due possibili ipotesi:

O Giovanni muore, ma in circostanze losche, perchè se fosse morto per via naturale o per qualche incidente non vedo proprio il motivo di tenere la notizia nascosta..... per quale motivo???

Oppure l'altra ipotesi (e questa credo che sia la piu' probabile) Giovanni si rifà una nuova vita in America accompagnandosi a un'altra donna e magari mettendo su un'altra famiglia..... Ecco spiegato il motivo del silenzio sulle sue vicende.....

Però francamente Antonio, qualcuno in famiglia DEVE aver saputo qualcosa....

Nel 1920 census si dichaira come Merchant in a store gen...... Le vostre notizie quali erano? che mestiere Faceva?

Antonio queste sono soltanto mie impressioni naturalmente... Dimmi cosa ne pensi....
Inoltre potresti dare i nomi dei suoi figli in Italia (se non ti sembra opportuno semmai me li comunichi con un PM)..... Non si sa mai, se avesse avuto altri figli forse potrebbe averli chiamati ugualmente.....
Laura

[BillieDeKid]

A little more information on Giuseppe


“Farm and Business Directory of Chester County, Pennsylvania, 1914,â€

[underground]

[quote="BillieDeKid"]A little more information on Giuseppe


“Farm and Business Directory of Chester County, Pennsylvania, 1914,â€

[pink67]

Ciao Antonio!!!!

(Vedrò di scrivere in inglese così anche gli altri utenti possono capire... e non diventa un post "riservato" )

Very interesting the site you posted, why don't request the Naturalization papers?

Name: Demicis , Giuseppe
Spouse's Name: Trersa
Children: Had Children
Residence: Avondale
Occupation: Merchant
Birth Place: Italy
Birth Date: July 15, 1880
Port of Emigration:
Emigration Date: Naples, Italy
June 2, 1907
Port of Entry:
Arrival Date: New York

Vessel: Cretic
Petition Date:
Petition Number, Book, Page: 242 , 3 ,92
Declaration Date:
Naturalization Date: March 13, 1916
Comments: a.k.a. De Domenicis, Joseph. Ltr. Attached

a.k.a. means "Also known as" and in fact there is the right spelling of his surname.
Dont know the other words....

My searches about John are fruitless..... have you tried to ask to the Carinola Civil Office if they have an annotation of death about John?

Laura

Non so piu' dove cercare.....

[misbris]

"Ltr. attached " means that there was a letter attached to the record. That may mean that Joseph legally changed his name. If so, there might be a court record of that. It could also be a more "unofficial" letter attesting to the fact that he is the same person.

Laura did a wonderful job on tracking down Giuseppe.
I find it very strange that Giovanni does not appear in any of these records. How could the brothers lose track of each other when thy were giving each other's name as contact? A puzzle!!

Mary Jo

[suanj]

and under DeDominicis name:
Name: DeDominicis , Joseph
Spouse's Name:
Children: No Children
Residence: Oxford
Occupation: Painter
Birth Place: Italy
Birth Date: July 15, 1880
Port of Emigration:
Emigration Date: Naples, Italy

Port of Entry:
Arrival Date: New York
June 15, 1907
Vessel: Cretic
Petition Date:
Petition Number, Book, Page: 134, 237 , 2 ,33, 138
Declaration Date: June 15, 1909: May 16, 1911
Naturalization Date:
Comments: see note on declaration

[BillieDeKid]

Suanj what do you think this means? Same person? Or maybe Giovanni is the painter and used Giuseppe's identity for some reason?

How is the same man in Avondale and Oxford? One a painter and one owns a restaraunt!

This is strange. What are your thoughts suanj?

[suanj]

it is the same person( Giuseppe DE DOMINICIS).... I believe that Joseph had some secret in him heart.... him life was so strange.... poor and alone in 1910, owner and alone in 1920... changed the name... it is as if he don't wished be found...
kisses, suanj

[underground]

You all are thinking right.

Strange fact on his life:
Joseph has slowly changed step by step his name:
DeDominicis in 1909 (first naturalization request)
De Dommices in 1910 (1910 census)
Demicis starting 1916 (naturalization and all following documents)
He has more than one address on his availability.
He is home owner in 1920.
He was a painter in 1909, marchant in 1916 and 1920, business man in 1922.

He never says nothing about his brother, particularly in war reg. card. when says that his nearest relative is the wife in Italy:
So, as Laura says, or Giovanni is died few times after arriving in Usa and Giuseppe has hidden the fact, or he has been more able than Giuseppe to change his identity, according with the brother.

I think that when Giuseppe asks for Passport in 1922 he leaves definitively USA, even if he thought to return.

About Giovanni:
Born on 2 march 1877 in Carinola, married on sept.13 1900 with Rosa Ferraro, had two sons: Antonia (Antonietta) on 1901 and Maria on 1903.
He had a brother Giuseppe and a sister Angelica.
His father was Antimo and his mother was Antonia Simeone.

[suanj]

underground: if Giovanni died, however the italian Consulate had to inform the family in Italy... normally it is so... instead nothing.... as it is possible that a people deseappeared.... and no trace...? if Giovanni changed the name, however must be in WWI draft registration card.... if declared right birthdate... instead nothing... it is possible that he changed the name and declared false birthdate and false birthplace in WWI draft reg. card? in this case it is impossible to find it.... however if he, in some way.. died... some documents must be, and some document had arrive in Italy, saying the death... instead nothing... maybe Giovanni made another life, and Joseph knew the secret... perhaps Giovanni payed Giuseppe for this secret...
only suggestions.... nothing of sure, maybe we can search a last ship's manifest for Joseph, because from 1907 until 1922 he made another trip in Italy?

[pink67]

A giugno 1920 chiede il passporto, si ferma in Italia dal 17 luglio 1920 al 22 aprile del 1921

Ciao Suanj,

in fact in his second passport he declared he was in Italy from July 17, 1920 to April 22, 1921....
There must be his arrival in April/May 1921!!!

Let's search!!
Laura

[underground]

Hi suanj,
I thought Giuseppe could have hidden the die sayng that him, as his brother, would have been taken care about informing the relatives in Italy, but i don't know if this was possible or the consulate attivate the contact with the relatives prescinding the parents in USA.

It's sure that in Italy is NEVER arrived a document about his die, at the civil office he is still ALIVE.

In the little village where they were (Casanova) many years ago someone who returned from Usa said they had seen him, someone in a bar, someone descending the bus. A man swore he had tolked him, asking why he did not gave notice on him in Italy, the answer was: "See you, i will came back soon!"

About the Giusppe's trip in Italy in 1920/21, is it possible that the return in USA was in other port (Boston?)