"Salvatore" vs "Salvadore"

[CaptainCatholic]

Hello everyone!

I am trying to figure out whether my 4th-Great-Grandfather's name was "Salvatore" or "Salvadore" (spelled with a "T" or a "D"). He was born in Campofelice, Sicily to parents who were also born in Sicily. His last name was Ajello.

Here is his marriage record:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 7.jpg.html

His name also appears on the birth record for his daughter, Giuseppa Ajello:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

I would assume that his name was "Salvatore" with a "T," since that's usually the Italian form (and I think "Salvadore" with a "D" is the Spanish form?). However, to me, it looks like the person filling out the forms spelled it with a "D." Unless I'm just reading it wrong?

In looking through the town of Campofelice di Roccella in Sicily (where he was from), every form of Salvatore/Salvadore looks identical to the way my great-grandfather's name was spelled (either they were all spelled with a "T" or a "D," no variation!).

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!
Tony

[Italysearcher]

Since 'spelling' doesn't exist in Italian where you pronounce every letter how a name is written depends on the speech clarity of whose speaking.
There is no right or wrong but Salvatore is the name of the Saviour so it's probably the one they wanted even if it turned out differently.

[sbiondo257]

You're right about the Italian and Spanish variations of that name. I would think it'd be "Salvatore" since that's the Italian variant. Also, the last name was almost certainly "Aiello" because Latin uses "i" and "j" interchangeably. I have some friend and relatives with the last name Aiello as well, so I'm pretty sure that Ajello is just the Latin variant.

Hope this helps,

Salvatore Biondo

[CaptainCatholic]

Since 'spelling' doesn't exist in Italian where you pronounce every letter how a name is written depends on the speech clarity of whose speaking.
There is no right or wrong but Salvatore is the name of the Saviour so it's probably the one they wanted even if it turned out differently.

Hello ItalySearcher! Thanks so much for the response! Wow... that's actually kind of mind-blowing, haha. I never thought about it that way, but you're right - many of my ancestors probably couldn't even read or write (in the early 1800s), and even if they could, Italian is very straight-forward with pronunciation of letters as you mentioned. And as you said, "Salvatore" is the name of the Saviour (that's how they would have said "Savior"), not "Salvadore." Very insightful, thank you so much for your help!!

[CaptainCatholic]

You're right about the Italian and Spanish variations of that name. I would think it'd be "Salvatore" since that's the Italian variant. Also, the last name was almost certainly "Aiello" because Latin uses "i" and "j" interchangeably. I have some friend and relatives with the last name Aiello as well, so I'm pretty sure that Ajello is just the Latin variant.

Hope this helps,

Salvatore Biondo

Hi Salvatore! (Great name, especially since it relates to this post, haha). Thanks so much for your help! Great point about "Aiello" too. That is something that is also confusing to me - I researched that for a while, thinking it was Aiello, but for whatever reason, I have found multiple documents for multiple ancestors in my family with that name and it is consistently spelled with a "j" (whereas there are other families in the same town which are spelled with an "i"). I don't know if it's just a variation, or if it really was just "Aiello?" But I didn't realize that Latin uses "i" and "j" interchangeably, thanks for that information and again for your help!!

[Tessa78]

What appears to resemble a "j" is actually the Italian long "i".
There was no "j"

From the site below...
The letters J, K, W, X and Y are not part of the proper alphabet, and appear only in loanwords[1] (e.g. 'jeans', 'weekend'), foreign names, and in a handful of native words...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_orthography

And this...regarding interchangeable letters
https://script.byu.edu/Pages/the-italia ... t(english)

T.

[SUNSERI]

Bonjour,

Moi aussi je suis dans le meme cas ,En Sicile dans les prénoms de Salvadore et Salvatore il y a les deux orthographes ,dans le votre c'est Salvadore !
Cordialement

[cedrone]

There are both Ajello and Aiello.
It is possible that a family with name Ajello in old records has become Aiello in modern times, but now you should see which is the form used in present registers. Another surname with J is Ojetti.
I don't agree that the letter J is not part of the Italian alphabet.

[cedrone]

The letter J was used in Italian mainly as a semi vowel, ex. : jeri, as you may find in the registers of Family Search, in modern Italian has been replaced by I, but it survived in proper names, such as surnames as said, and geographical names: Mare Jonio (or Ionio), Jugoslavia (or Iugoslavia).
This has little to do with Latin language, J was used in the Latin of the church in the same way as said before for Italian (ejusdem), but in old Latin (old inscriptions on stone or metal) there was used I.

[CaptainCatholic]

What appears to resemble a "j" is actually the Italian long "i".
There was no "j"

From the site below...
The letters J, K, W, X and Y are not part of the proper alphabet, and appear only in loanwords[1] (e.g. 'jeans', 'weekend'), foreign names, and in a handful of native words...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_orthography

And this...regarding interchangeable letters
https://script.byu.edu/Pages/the-italia ... t(english)

T.

Hi Tessa! Ah, that is absolutely fascinating! I read over both the sources you listed - I had no idea the Italian alphabet was only 21 letters, and I had never heard of the "Italian long i." I guess it really was "Aiello" then! Thank you so much for your help once again!!! I hope to one day have half your knowledge, haha

[CaptainCatholic]

Bonjour,

Moi aussi je suis dans le meme cas ,En Sicile dans les prénoms de Salvadore et Salvatore il y a les deux orthographes ,dans le votre c'est Salvadore !
Cordialement

Salut! Merci pour votre réponse! Ah, intéressant - alors vous dites qu'en Sicile, il y a deux orthographes de "Salvatore?" Et l'un d'eux est "Salvadore?" Merci encore pour votre aide!

[CaptainCatholic]

The letter J was used in Italian mainly as a semi vowel, ex. : jeri, as you may find in the registers of Family Search, in modern Italian has been replaced by I, but it survived in proper names, such as surnames as said, and geographical names: Mare Jonio (or Ionio), Jugoslavia (or Iugoslavia).
This has little to do with Latin language, J was used in the Latin of the church in the same way as said before for Italian (ejusdem), but in old Latin (old inscriptions on stone or metal) there was used I.

Hi cedrone! Thank you for your help!! Oh man, now I'm really confused, haha. Very interesting! I didn't even think about it... but I wonder if Sicily also has/had a different way of writing things compared to the rest of Italy? (Salvatore was from Sicily). Perhaps it's not really possible to tell whether his name was spelled with an "Italian long i" or simply a "j?" Thanks again!

[cedrone]

Sicily is part of Italy and the Italian language is the same.
In the act you posted I read Salvadore Ajello.
For me the letter is clearly a j.
In Italian 'I lungo' (long i) is the name of the letter J.
If you look at the site cognomix.it you'll
find that Aiello is more common than Ajello (I suppose these are families who preferred to conserve an older form).
Both are present mainly in Sicily.

[bbivona]

In Sicily they speak both Italian and Sicilian. In the past many in the working class spoke only Sicilian The letter "j" is part of the Sicilian language (jaddina instead of gallina, jattu instead of gatto, jucari instead giocari.) In some cases in Sicilian records, the Sicilian spelling of words (or of individual letters in words) and especially of names appears. They're more or less interchangeable. For example, in Gibellina the surname Ienna and Jenna both appear for the same families fairly often.