ITALIAN SURNAME

[mfjp]

Essgee....

she wrote....

Joe and Luchines Children: Mary (Concetta Mary) born 1895, and died June, 1924.
Luke Malone died 1938
Savine Malone
Frances Malone
Josephine Malone

This Maria Milone Pirrone's birthdate does not match the poster's information.. Mary Milone Pirrone was born in 1887 +-.....

Everytime you point something out to me... I end up re-reading ... reviewing... all this info over and over... 8O which is good... so you've got me on my toes here...

Ben's 1920 census record... has a Maria there born in 1900...

Joe's and Deena's 1920 census record does not have a Maria listed as she was married... and probably lived elsewhere...

Deena (probably Berardina) was born in 1867... +-

There's still a chance that she could be the Mary Milone the poster is looking for... but obviously, you are right... we need census records...

What we need to find is a 1910 census record of a Francesco Paolo and Mary Pirrone... not to mention the rest of the family...

Maria

[Essgee]

Ok....I am having a bit of a problem here...maybe I am confusing myself.

1. Maria Concetta Milone who married Gaspare, was born in 1895. This is the daughter of Joe, correct?

2. Maria Concetta Milone , daughter of Bernardo, is born 1907 or so. And Bernardo listed as Ben in 1920 census.

3. The Maria Milone Pirrone is probably related, but a cousin or aunt or something.

Joe is probably the brother of Bernardo. Their father is probably Leoluca and their mother is Maria Concetta. And since Bernardo's family was listed as Milone, without a doubt, that is the last name.

It is possible that the family went to Canada..many came into Illinois from there......but still think they have to be in Louisiana or Illiniois in 1910....but nothing.........

Having trouble finding St. George as well in 1910....he was listed as arriving in 1900 as well.......so not sure.

Why is it that the census has been so hard lately??? Will continue to look...

[mfjp]

oops... just finished editing my letter... Essgee read it over again.. just want to clarify better...

I am going to make me a coffee... house is super quiet right now....

Essgee... we have every right to be confused.... this info does need to be sorted out...

-------------------------------------

Mary (Maria) Malone/Melone married my grandfather Jasper (Gaspare) St. George (Sangiorgi), but I DO NOT have dates or location....still searching that. ANY IDEAS?

Link to Gaspare Sangiorio manifest... name of interest...

No wife is mentioned on this manifest ... Will park this here for future reference... the name is almost as you mentioned... but unfortunately the birth year could be off?? Just need a census record....

First Name: Gaspare (born 1879) NOT HIM
Last Name: Sangiorgio
Ethnicity: Italian South
Last Place of Residence: Palermo, Palermor
Date of Arrival: Jun 08, 1912
Age at Arrival: 33y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Kaiser Franz Josef I
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0008
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Social Security Death Index Record
about Jasper St. George
Name: Jasper St. George
SSN: xxxxxxxxx
Last Residence: 70601 Lake Charles, Calcasieu, Louisiana, United States of America
Born: 12 Feb 1890
Last Benefit: 70602 Lake Charles, Calcasieu, Louisiana, United States of America
Died: Jun 1977
State (Year) SSN issued: Texas (Before 1951)
------------------------------------
New Orleans Passenger Lists, 1820-1945 Record
about Gaspare Sangiorgi
Name: Gaspare Sangiorgi (born 1890+-)
Arrival Date: 9 Oct 1903
Age: 13
Gender: Male
Ethnic Background: Italian (South)
Port of Departure: Palermo, Italy
Ship Name: Manilla
Port of Arrival: New Orleans, Louisiana
Friend's Name: Pietra Sangiorgio (brother)
Last Residence: Italy
National Archives' Series Number: T905_2

Another Gaspare Sangiori manifest....

Essgee, you've mentioned Louisiana a couple of times... so I checked, and you are right... there are persons of interest here... linked the manifest for you to see...

Will review it later... calling it a night ...

Maria

[Essgee]

Maria......

Gaspare's 1930 census listing indicated he arrived 1912...so, he could have come and gone. One thing I did catch, the first child of Gaspare and Concetta born in 1914 and in Louisianna. Now, they married after 1912 most likely which may put the family in LA in the 1910 census...or maybe southern Mississippi...lots of Italians there in the Oyster fishing industry, etc.

This one is just plain hard.

[vj]

Looking for Malone (Milone, Melone, etc) family 1910 (& manifest??)
A clue? According to 1920 & 1930 census g-aunt Sabine (Savine Malone) Leone born abt 1901-2 in Italy:

Name: Sabine Leion
Spouse: Tony Birth: abt 1901 - Italy
Arrival: 1901
Residence: 1920 - Alton Ward 5, Madison, Illi

Name: Sabine Leone
Home in 1930: Alton, Madison, Illinois
Age: 28 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1902
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouses's Name: Anthony

[JoannL]

Dear Maria and Essgee,

Thank you so very much for the searching! I am more confused then ever..LOL.

As for as the Ellis Island Passenger list, I am not so sure this is my grandfather, Gaspare Sangiorgi...if it is then he was married before..showing an Alfonsa Germana???? listed right below him and going to meet father, but cant make it out where.But the birth date does not match up to his...and I know the SS Death Index is correct for sure.
He did live and die in Lake Charles, Louisiana.

WHY on the SS does it say ISSUED : TEXAS????...do you think maybe Gaspare was in Texas at that time?

I have a copy of Gaspares SS5 and it says issued in 1937 in St. Louis Missouri, ...has his father Carlo Sangiorgi ...his fathers name was Cologero...and has mother as Rosie Scotcher...her name was Rosalia Scaccia. BUT...also at the bottom..says with Nieces.......and cant make out there names...they are half cut off the copy...do you think I can call or write and request to know who these names are????

The New Orleans Passenger list I think is correct..says he was 13 years old and coming to see his brother Pietra, also...if you look the name above Gaspares...and the one above that...they were all going to meet Pietra...and one of the names was Pietra's wife...but cant make it out at all...can you please look and see what you can make of it???

1920 Census, has Gaspare Sangiorgi as Jasper St. George...which is correct..that is my last name...and also knew him as Jasper.
Has Jasper, Mary (wife), Carlo, Joe and Pete...also has Gaspares brother Sam (Salvatore) and his wife Luna or maybe Laura???? Can't make it out.
Does not have my aunt Rose. but she was born in 1920 or 1921...also there was a baby Luke (Mary and Jaspers son) ...born 1922 and died 1924, but of course not listed on these Census.

1920 Census for Malones...has Joe, Luchine (but has her name as DEENA)...but could have been a nick name???...but I do have documents with it as LUCHENA. I just found the name LEIONE on this same Census...about 3 names above the Malones...cant make out husbands name...but does say Sabine as wife...I think this may be Mary Malone St George's sister.
Both Census in Alton, Illinois.

1930 Census, has my dad, Pete, his brother Joe and sister in Orphanage, BUT...also has them living with Gaspare(Jasper)...along with brother Carlo.
BUT...I think the Orphanage one is correct.

Also..in 1930 Census....Malones...has Joe living with Luke(Marys brother) and his children. By this time Mary and her mother Luchine, were deceased. I dont know where Lukes wife was, I think her name was Rose, according to Joe's OBIT...list her as Rose Malone.

Can't find them anywhere after that...or before...not the Sangiorgis either...but I never checked 1900 Census for Illinois and Louisiana.....maybe ?????

Ok Essgee, the answer to your questions to what I know:

1..Maria(Mary) Concetta Malone did marry Gaspare Sangiorgi (Jasper St. George...and she is Joe Malones daughter.
I do not have dates or places where Mary and Gaspare married...BUT...I do have a small wedding picture of just Mary(my grandmother)...but NO dates or place..dang!!!

2. Ben is definately the brother of Joe Malone...Yes you are right...I think Milone is the correct spelling. Ben is listed in Joes OBIT.

3. I have no idea who this Maria Milone Pirrone is...maybe some cousin...do you think that it was Bens daughter???? I was hoping it was my grandmother...thinking maybe she was married before.

4. What makes you think Leoluca is Joe and Bens father???? Did you find that anywhere??? I have no idea who their mother or father was....man that would be awesome if you are right about that....WOW!!!!


5. I totally agree with you about Louisiana....BUT WHERE??....LOL...they just disappeared...POOF!!!!! LOL

As for as the Orphanage I am still waiting...hopefully more info will come with those records...should be getting those within the next few weeks.
HOW EXCITING!!!
I just hope they have some kind of picture of my father and hopefully his birth cert in there. I do not have any pictures of my father except when he and my mom got married and then when he was in Army(WWII)..and then everything older...nothing at all younger.

Somewhere after the 1930's I guess that is when Gaspare went to get them out. My father ended up in Lake Charles, Louisiana here with Gaspares sister...my Uncle Joe ended up in Illinois with some of Mary Malone St. georges brother, Charlie I think. And Aunt Rose ended up I think inNew York then back to Illinois.

My Uncle Carlo was in Lake Charles also...and so was Gaspare (jasper).
I just know that my father and my uncle Joe would NEVER talk about there childhood...I think it was pretty rough!

Well that is my story and hope all this helps in searching...I am not giving up.

I am pretty much on my own doing this...cousins dont care...dont remember...or won't say. All older ones are deceased.

I want to THANK ALL of you for helping me search. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT from the bottom of my heart!!! This means so much to me!!!
Thank you .....thank you.....THANK YOU!!!!!

Lets keep searching...hopefully something new will come up.


Joann

[Essgee]

Joann....

Don't have a clue about Maria Milone Pirrone...only that she apparently came from the same town....Corleone. She could be related in some manner, but not really sure at this point.

As for the names....both Bernardo and Giuseppe (Joe) named first daughters Maria Concetta and first sons were listed as Luca, thought on the original manifest of Ben's son it was Leoluca. Since naming patterns followed from generation to generation in Italy, the first daughter was usually named of the father's mother, the first son for the father's father. The second son for the mother's father, the second daughter for the daughter's father. Anyway, there is a good chance the names of Concetta and Luca refer to the parents of both Joe and Ben.

And keep talking to relatives. Ask questions. Give then what you have found so far...sometimes just priming the pump will work. If you can get more then one of them in the same room, they begin to feed off each other...ask for stories they were told or things they remembered. Might no be much, but eventually it will fill out the whole of what you find. Don't give up.

Still don't understand what happened to them in 1910...must be somewhere...but the name could really be messed up some way. Hang in there....it is bound to be figured out in the long run.

Have a great one.......

[Essgee]

Oh.......and will have to look at the Texas issued SS card. He could have been working there when his was issued. Remember, it was after all the passing of Social Security in the 1930's that they were first issued. Depending on where he was living at the time, that is the state that issued it. Will look into it.

[JoannL]

Thanks Essgee!!! Really appreciate any input and ideas you may have!!

Oh I am not giving up!! I am just beginning! LOL
Maybe when the orphan records come in they may have some clues.

Yeah the 1910 Census has me confused also!! I am sure the names are different in transcribing some how, hopefully something will come up.

I'll keep searching!

Thanks again!

Thanks to you to VJ...these 50 year old eyes couldnt read the Census on Sabines husbands name. You have any idea where they could be in 1910?

Thanks for reading that for me and giving me the info!!

All have been a great help!!! This is the BEST forum I have come across....always ready to help!!! THANKS EVERYONE!!!

[mfjp]

Dear Maria and Essgee,

The New Orleans Passenger list I think is correct..says he was 13 years old and coming to see his brother Pietra, also...if you look the name above Gaspares...and the one above that...they were all going to meet Pietra...and one of the names was Pietra's wife...but cant make it out at all...can you please look and see what you can make of it???

Joann

Another Gaspare Sangiori manifest....

Passenger on line 28 says Rosalia E r a n i o as wife of Pietro Sangiorgio

Passenger on line 29 says Saverio E r a i n o as ... doesn't say... assuming it is the b-i-L.

Now here's where the problem is...

The surnames Eranio and Eraino... both exist on the Ellis Island database...

The manifest tells me they were from Alia...Palermo...

Just researching this name further... Ellis website is failing miserably tonight....

Oh... by the way... you have posted one of the best recaps I've seen!!

Good stuff!! Will keep you updated... best to do this in pieces...

Maria

P.S. See??... Didn't I tell you VJ (Valarie) was so right on with her findings?? "Just the facts..."

[vj]

Joann,
Wish I could find the family in 1910. But, I'm stumped.
I followed Essgee's lead and rechecked ancestry.com for everyone
by first name (& first 3 letters of 1st name) & approx birth date
and location Italy, or Louisiana (esp looking in LA).
Searching w/o a last name usually turns up something close.
But, nothing. (BTW I looked earlier in August when you posted
on gaetano's forum, so I still had my notes)
Tried finding some Tambarello relatives in 1910, but no apparent connection.
Not giving up, they must be somewhere. If they had returned to
Italy for a visit, there would be another manifest coming back (Maria?)!
Valarie

(ps: just for Maria, a few more words! )

[JoannL]

Valarie and Maria,

You are BOTH SO AWESOME!!!!
Valarie, I cannot believe you could make out the name of Sabine's husband!
Maria, and you making out the name on the passenger list...I had NO clue!!!
Oh you are so right Valarie....they have to be somewhere.
Pietra was in Patterson, Louisiana...St. Mary Parish..I looked there the other day...different spellings of Sangiorgi...nothing came up!!!
But they just couldnt disappear. They have to be somewhere!!

THANK YOU!! Both of you are the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Essgee]

There does appear to be another Milone from Corleone who might be related. An Ignazio who arrived in NY in 1898. He had a son that arrived some time later whose name was also Leoluca.... Possible that Ignazio is another brother to Bernardo and Giuseppe.

Also, in the 1913 arrival of Bernardo at Ellis Island, it stated that he was off to meet Giuseppe in Illinois...so by 1913 there are in Ill.

Back to the drawing board.

Valarie....doesn't it just get you when you have tried soundex, first three letters +* for first name, or last name, or all people born in a year ect....you would think there would be some clue somewhere..........maybe they were in some state in between LA and IL. Who knows?

[vj]

Essgee!, Maria & Joann,
been feeling like a jinx!
Haven't found a census in days.
With all the options and combinations on ancestry they should be
there. Hoping when they're found they're all living together !

ancestry transcription of Pietro's wife on Maria's 1903 manifest:
Name: Rosalia Eraeria
Arrival Date: 9 Oct 1903
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Ethnic Background: Italian (South)
Port of Departure: Palermo, Italy
Ship Name: Manilla
Port of Arrival: New Orleans, Louisiana
Friend's Name: Pietra Sangiorgio
Last Residence: Italy

Someone on this manifest was naturalized in Chicago???

Back at it tomorrow night! Valarie

[mfjp]

Recap of Fsco. Paolo and Maria's manifest...

Melone Pirrone One page manifest

Francesco Paolo ???? Surname is a tough one to read when you first look at this manifest... I could in NO WAY read this as Pirrone... at first sight.... but if you take a look at line 22... there is another Pirrone who's script is a little more clearer...

This is how it was on the Ellis data base...

First Name: Fco. Paolo
Last Name: Pirrone
Ethnicity: Italian, South Italy
Last Place of Residence: Corleone
Date of Arrival: Mar 07, 1906
Age at Arrival: 26y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Citta di Napoli
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0027

Listed as a countryman, off to NY with $80, was also in the USA from 1895? to 1904... brother in law is Pietro Leone at 337 & 106 St... hope I got the address right.

Here is a manifest for Pietro Leone.... who's father is Giovachino (sp?) at 337 and 106 St. and he is definitely connected to Maria and Fsco. Paolo...

Pietro Leone's manifest 1905

The bonus about this manifest is that there is a notation that tells me that he also travels with his wife on the same boat??? (43.1.2.) Hope I've understood this correctly.. Wonder who Pietro's wife is.. am currently looking for her.

this is correct because Mary's sister Savine was married to a LEONE....this is known for a fact.

ok... your quote above does make sense now... this info helps me with my next search...

----------------------------------------------

First Name: Maria
Last Name: Melone Pirrone
Ethnicity: Italian, South Italy
Last Place of Residence: Corleone
Date of Arrival: Mar 07, 1906
Age at Arrival: 19y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Citta di Napoli
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0028

She is definitely traveling with Fsco. Paolo Pirrone. She is listed as a married.. not sure what her calling or occupation is (does it say married wife)???

She is one her way to NY with $27, and would be joining her brother-in-law Pietro Leone at 337 & 106 St...

--------------------------------------------------

Maria

What makes this confusing is that all these surnames ryhme.. Melone, Pirrone, Leone... well almost...

Well... here's a Leone Milone combo...

First Name: Giovanna (married to Giocchino Leone)
Last Name: Milone
Ethnicity: Italy South
Last Place of Residence: Corleone
Date of Arrival: Oct 27, 1905
Age at Arrival: 27y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Nord America
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0001

Giovanna Milone Leone manifest 1905

First Name: Gioaichino
Last Name: Leone
Ethnicity: Italy South
Last Place of Residence: Corleone
Date of Arrival: Oct 27, 1905
Age at Arrival: 2y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Nord America
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0002

Destination address is the same as all of the above... 337 & 106 St...

I keep running into this family!! Might as well document the NY line of Milones/Leones...

-----------------------
Maria