Frosinone/Agrigento connection..?

[MarcuccioV]

I'm attempting to trace back on my maternal grandmother's line (b.1902 Valmontone, RM) with much difficulty.

There are no civil records for her commune before 1871 (unification). Based on my DNA results/DNA matches, there were older gens that apparently came up from Sicily that I can't trace. My mtDNA (meaning her direct female line) on multiple fronts ends up in or near Santa Margherita di Belice, in Agrigento province. So far no common surnames have been found.

She would often speak (she died in 1997) of the province of Frosinone (as if she had relatives from there). Her grandmother's surname was Pontecorvo, which is a commune in Frosinone province. I have access to a family tree (extensively researched and sourced) which shows that surname as long term (late 1700's) in Valmontone, so my assumption is that the Frosinone connection is further back on her maternal line.

I also have DNA connections to Frosinone province (various communes), so I'm wondering if there might have been some cross-pollination between Frosinone and Agrigento (whether that was one family or several).

Anyone else have ties to these two far distant provinces..? I realize I'm grabbing at straws here, but it's currently all I have.

[mmogno]

What is the last name?

[MarcuccioV]

What is the last name?

mmogno, the furthest back I can get on the paper trail from Valmontone gives my grandmother's GGm as Francesca Topani (supposedly born in Valmontone, died prior to 1871). The Topani surname is not common to Valmontone, but shows up occasionally in the records. Unfortunately I can't get beyond that point...

Any help would be appreciated.

[MarcuccioV]

There was an error in my original post. Going backwards, my grandmother's surname was Attiani, her mother Pontecorvo, her Gm Mezzo and her GGm Topani...

And just as an additional aside, one of my DNA matches is 99% Sicilian, with all but one line from Menfi, the last line from Santa Margherita di Belice... It isa 9cM match, so several gens back...

[MarcuccioV]

UPDATE: A recent Ancestry match (11cM) is 98% Southern Italian/Greek (2% Welsh). A small tree, from what I can make out, all Sicilian.

Only recognizable surname is Fontana. There is no info to go on aside from the name (no location or forebears). Although common throughout Italy, it is found also in Valmontone, and a 3rd cousin once-removed (related through my grandfather's mother) has that surname in his family.

Probably a red herring, but it's the closest thing I have found so far.

The100% Italian/Sicilian/Greek match has no info or surnames to research. I may send a PM for info.

[darkerhorse]

I assume your description of DNA matches as "Sicilian" is based on their place of birth, residence, and/or death in family trees or other paper trails.

Do any of those "Sicilian" DNA matches actually have an admixture (or other measure) reported as percentage "Sicilian" - as opposed to "Italian", "Southern Italian", "Mediterranean" etc. - in their DNA test results?

I believe most companies don't report a "Sicilian" category per se.

Another point is that greater Rome has been so cosmopolitan throughout history that you have your work cut out for you. Contrast that with generations of families in Sicily (and other such areas) who inter-bred and stayed put.

[darkerhorse]

I should have written "intra-bred".

It's ironic but thoroughbreds are likely less robust than mutts according to genetics, as I understand it.

[MarcuccioV]

I assume your description of DNA matches as "Sicilian" is based on their place of birth, residence, and/or death in family trees or other paper trails.

Do any of those "Sicilian" DNA matches actually have an admixture (or other measure) reported as percentage "Sicilian" - as opposed to "Italian", "Southern Italian", "Mediterranean" etc. - in their DNA test results?

I believe most companies don't report a "Sicilian" category per se.

Another point is that greater Rome has been so cosmopolitan throughout history that you have your work cut out for you. Contrast that with generations of families in Sicily (and other such areas) who inter-bred and stayed put.

I surmise "Sicilian" by the forebears places of birth. Also by genetics, where there is a predominance of "Southern Italian", "Greece/Albania", "Aegean Islands" or "Cyprus". I have the former & latter two (as well as some "Northern Italian" although I have found no connections to Northern Italy). The furthest north I get is Abruzzo, which is east of Rome. Most of my DNA matches are Rome-South (all the way to Sicily). Any northern I may have are most likely related to families from the home commune in which we "interbred"...

[MarcuccioV]

I did some further research on the match I mentioned above who added the small tree with the grandfather's surname of "Fontana".

Turns out he hailed from Gibellina. Although in Trapani, it's only a stone's throw from Santa Margherita di Belice in Agrigento. It appears coincidental, but just may be my tie-in. I just wish it were a less common surname...

[MarcuccioV]

The more I think about this, the more this question nags at me:

Was there a lot of maritime passenger travel between the ports of Palermo and Naples..?

It would explain why among a large majority of my Italian DNA matches seem to have ties in Sicily and Campania predominantly and only a scant few (which may be unrelated to my family) in Calabria, Basilicata and Molise.

That would logically make sea travel more feasible than land travel for migration within the country. I have less matches in Lazio (my grandparents native province) and in Abruzzo (where I believe one family line came from) than in Sicily and the countryside of Campania. It spreads northward from there (albeit very little north of Rome), with a little going east into Puglia according to my 23&Me chart.

Timeline would most likely be 1700's, possibly before. No later than the early 1800's.

If this were an active shipping lane for passengers as well as merchandise, it might explain a lot, including the gap in matches between Sicily and Campania (Naples). They went by boat as opposed to over land.

Any thoughts..?

[darkerhorse]

My grandfather came over in 1913, making the 400-mile trip from Sicily to Naples to catch the ship which took him to America. I don't know how he made the trip to Naples, by land or by sea.

[MarcuccioV]

My grandfather came over in 1913, making the 400-mile trip from Sicily to Naples to catch the ship which took him to America. I don't know how he made the trip to Naples, by land or by sea.

My grandfather also sailed out of Naples (1910). I would think perhaps he could have sailed from Messina or Siracusa to Naples, as it's a lot closer than Palermo...