Dialect and slang of eastern Lazio

[MarcuccioV]

I’m curious if anyone knows anything about dialects from eastern Lazio. My grandparents were both born there (as were several generations prior), all from the same town. But it seems some of the dialect and slang they used sounds like it may have originated in other regions where more distant ancestors may have come from. I can only suppose perhaps the families brought their dialects and slang with them.

For example, my grandmother’s pronunciation for the word “questo” sounded like “keesh-toe”, which sounds closer to Sicilian. Oftentimes “qua” was changed to “qui”, and “I’m here”, instead of “sono qui”, would come out as “qui stao” (stao being a corruption of stato).

Sometimes words would get ‘cut’ in somewhat of a Barese fashion: “No lo voglio” was shortened & pronounced like “no wah”; “basta” for “bastanza”

Other words seemed perhaps locally originated – instead of “pazzo”, we substituted “matto” (perhaps a corruption of “materasso”)..? Usually when referring to someone it would be said “matt’an capo” (crazy in the head). “Cappoccia” often replaced “testa”.

Lastly, my grandmother never used the term “scarafaggi” to describe cockroaches or water beetles, instead she called them “bacherozzi” – I thought she was Italianizing the English word “bug”, but I found it in an Italian-language article once…

[darkerhorse]

The only Italian I remember was 'Take-a you jack, an put-a in-a da closs."

[MarcuccioV]

The only Italian I remember was 'Take-a you jack, an put-a in-a da closs."

Oh, I could go on for days with those...

[PippoM]

For example, my grandmother’s pronunciation for the word “questo” sounded like “keesh-toe”, which sounds closer to Sicilian. Oftentimes “qua” was changed to “qui”, and “I’m here”, instead of “sono qui”, would come out as “qui stao” (stao being a corruption of stato).
"qui" e "qua" have the same meaning in Italian; instead of "qui stao", I'd say "qui sto". Also, in most areas of Lazio out of Roma, or in Abruzzo, "st" is pronounced "sht"; this is called in Roma "parlata burina", meaning the way of speaking of people coming from the country
Sometimes words would get ‘cut’ in somewhat of a Barese fashion: “No lo voglio” was shortened & pronounced like “no wah”; “basta” for “bastanza”

Other words seemed perhaps locally originated – instead of “pazzo”, we substituted “matto” (perhaps a corruption of “materasso”)..? Usually when referring to someone it would be said “matt’an capo” (crazy in the head). “Cappoccia” often replaced “testa”.
"Matto" is almost equivalent to "pazzo", in Italian; I'd say, like "mad" and "crazy"? "Capoccia" is used in dialect for "testa" (but I think everyone in Italy understands the meaning
Lastly, my grandmother never used the term “scarafaggi” to describe cockroaches or water beetles, instead she called them “bacherozzi” – I thought she was Italianizing the English word “bug”, but I found it in an Italian-language article once…
and yes, "bacherozzi" or "bacarozzi" is dialect for "scarafaggi", but that goes the same as for "capoccia" (everyone would understand)

[MarcuccioV]

For example, my grandmother’s pronunciation for the word “questo” sounded like “keesh-toe”, which sounds closer to Sicilian. Oftentimes “qua” was changed to “qui”, and “I’m here”, instead of “sono qui”, would come out as “qui stao” (stao being a corruption of stato).
"qui" e "qua" have the same meaning in Italian; instead of "qui stao", I'd say "qui sto". Also, in most areas of Lazio out of Roma, or in Abruzzo, "st" is pronounced "sht"; this is called in Roma "parlata burina", meaning the way of speaking of people coming from the country
Sometimes words would get ‘cut’ in somewhat of a Barese fashion: “No lo voglio” was shortened & pronounced like “no wah”; “basta” for “bastanza”

Other words seemed perhaps locally originated – instead of “pazzo”, we substituted “matto” (perhaps a corruption of “materasso”)..? Usually when referring to someone it would be said “matt’an capo” (crazy in the head). “Cappoccia” often replaced “testa”.
"Matto" is almost equivalent to "pazzo", in Italian; I'd say, like "mad" and "crazy"? "Capoccia" is used in dialect for "testa" (but I think everyone in Italy understands the meaning
Lastly, my grandmother never used the term “scarafaggi” to describe cockroaches or water beetles, instead she called them “bacherozzi” – I thought she was Italianizing the English word “bug”, but I found it in an Italian-language article once…
and yes, "bacherozzi" or "bacarozzi" is dialect for "scarafaggi", but that goes the same as for "capoccia" (everyone would understand)

Thanks, Pippo. There are others, but these were what I thought of. We had many friends/relations from different parts of Italy/Sicily, it was fun to hear them all at one table (literally having 6 conversations simultaneously) using their various dialects...

[MarcuccioV]

Pippo, your comment about "parlata burina" (country speak) made me think-- my grandmother's birth act shows the family residence as "Via del Capo Croce" which doesn't exist on current maps of Valmontone. She came to the US (as my grandfather's new bride) at age 19 (1922) but was never able to shed her "contadina" lifestyle -- she always dressed in a peasant style (except for special occasions) and my cousins all called her the 'farmwoman' even though they lived in the city (Detroit, followed later by Los Angeles) and my grandfather was an autoworker and very "Americanized"...

[MarcuccioV]

I found a Catasto Gregoriano listing brogliardi from Valmontone about 1848. In referring to the map I found 'Capo Croce' which was near the center of the old "hilltop" part of town. The area has been reconfigured somewhat (I assume due to the mass destruction from WWII bombings of the town) and streets re-routed and renamed.

So perhaps earlier generations in my grandmother's family may have migrated in from more rural environs and she just mirrored their speech style. I don't know much about her early years but she did have very much an air of a "country girl" without much refinement (I don't necessarily say that in a negative context).

Since her mtDNA comes from Sicily it would lead to the assumption that at least SOME of her family were likely migrant farmers and worked their way north with time...

[MarcuccioV]

I remember another dialect word -- used for sewer rat -- "zoccala/zoccali/zoccalone" instead of "ratto/ratti". However, mouse was the typical "sorcio/sorci". We didn't use "topo/topi". Probably just more "parlatta burina".

Do you know this one, Pippo Moccaldi..?

[PippoM]

Yes, the word is "zoccola". It is considered an unpolite word, and is also used with reference...ehm...to a woman, I'd say, like "bitch". I think is a southern word, while "sorcio" is used everywhere, to mean a country mouse (small).

[MarcuccioV]

Yes, the word is "zoccola". It is considered an unpolite word, and is also used with reference...ehm...to a woman, I'd say, like "bitch". I think is a southern word, while "sorcio" is used everywhere, to mean a country mouse (small).

A lot of my ancestry is southern, including Sicilian. I never heard it used in that context you describe that I recall, only to describe rats (that's the only word we used for rats). For the use you describe, I only recall the more mild "zingara" (gypsy) or typical "puttana" (prostitute)...

[MarcuccioV]

"qui" e "qua" have the same meaning in Italian; instead of "qui stao", I'd say "qui sto". Also, in most areas of Lazio out of Roma, or in Abruzzo, "st" is pronounced "sht"; this is called in Roma "parlata burina", meaning the way of speaking of people coming from the country

Pippo, I thought of another word she used in which she used the "sh" sound -- "bosco" (woods; although she used it for overgrowth). It was pronounced 'bosh-co'.

If this too is "parlata burina" (or perhaps Abruzzese dialect) it must be from far back. She and all family members I can find in her line were born/raised in the old hilltop part of Valmontone, not anywhere in the hinterlands. She was also born in 1902 and attended school & was not illiterate (although previous family members were).

My DNA DOES suggest strong ties to Abruzzo but I can't get back far enough to find it. Her direct female line goes back to Sicily, and although not quite as strong, it is still significant...

[PippoM]

"qui" e "qua" have the same meaning in Italian; instead of "qui stao", I'd say "qui sto". Also, in most areas of Lazio out of Roma, or in Abruzzo, "st" is pronounced "sht"; this is called in Roma "parlata burina", meaning the way of speaking of people coming from the country

Pippo, I thought of another word she used in which she used the "sh" sound -- "bosco" (woods; although she used it for overgrowth). It was pronounced 'bosh-co'.

It's not a matter of education...that is very common in the areas with that characteristic, regardless of people's studies. In the area of Naples, an "s" followed by a consonant is pronounced "sh" ("shp", "shca","shf"...except "st", that is pronounced like in Italian, unlike in Abruzzo). And you would find doctors or university professors who can't get rid of this kind of pronounce.

[MarcuccioV]

Mille grazie for the information..! I do ALSO have genetic ties to Campania.

[AngelaGrace56]

Sometimes words would get ‘cut’ in somewhat of a Barese fashion: “No lo voglio” was shortened & pronounced like “no wah”; “basta” for “bastanza”
.

We used the word "avvastanza" in the dialect we spoke. I remember "basta" and "bastanza" being used as well and understood them to be dialect, but maybe not.... and that the Italian word for "enough" was "abbastanza"???

I remember another dialect word -- used for sewer rat -- "zoccala/zoccali/zoccalone" instead of "ratto/ratti". However, mouse was the typical "sorcio/sorci".

I remember the word "zoccala" for rat as well, not specifically "sewer rat" though - I suppose "nu zoccalone" might be a "big rat"?

The word we used for mouse was "sorece" which is a little different from "typical".

Angela

[MarcuccioV]

I remember the word "zoccala" for rat as well, not specifically "sewer rat" though - I suppose "nu zoccalone" might be a "big rat"?

The word we used for mouse was "sorece" which is a little different from "typical".

Angela

Angela,

"Sewer rat" was more of an Americanism. Since my grandparents anchored in Detroit, Michigan, large rats were common in the alleys (where garbage was kept) & lived in the sewers underground. They were considerably fatter/bigger than the standard Norway rat, due to plentiful food sources. Therefore, the term 'zoccalone' was used to describe them, whereas 'zoccali' would be more typical Norway rats.

Where is the dialect you describe native to..? My DNA links to Campania, Abruzzo, Sicilia and Puglia in addition to Lazio. I'm sure these dialects were a combination of all of those to some extent...