how to PROVE someone DIDNT renounce italian citizenship?

[mler]

The consulates--even the most difficult ones--do not ask you to prove that an ancestor did not renounce (aside from the original emigrant from Italy).

There are two forms to complete. The Declaration for a Deceased Ascendent is one that you complete and have notarized. On it you state that your deceased ascendent did not renounce. Another form, Declaration of Living Ascendent is completed by your living ascendent(s). Again, it is a statement that the ascendent never renounced.

Don't worry about this one. It's the original emigrant for whom proof is needed. The consulates assume that subsequent generations did not renounce because they would have had to do so at the Italian consulate. The declarations are a formality. And, btw, serving in the U.S. military does not constitute renunciation.

[popogirl79]

thank you sooo soooo much! i was also wondering...are there any downfalls to becoming a dual italian and US citizen? some people mentioned certain military requirements? i am female,age 30. is there anything i need to be aware of besides my "romantic" fantasies of living/studying/working abroad for any period of time?

[mler]

There is no longer a military draft in Italy, so that is not an issue. The only possible problem is that you will likely find it difficult to obtain a top level security clearance in the U.S. if you hold dual citizenship. If that is a possibility in the future, I would suggest holding off on your application.

[popogirl79]

forgive me, but what exactly does top security clearance mean?

[PeterTimber]

Google.com and put it title "definition USA High Security Clearance" =Peter=

[johnnyonthespot]

i was also wondering...are there any downfalls to becoming a dual italian and US citizen?

This question arises occasionally. Of all the discussion, I filtered out these three areas of concern:

1) You may possibly be denied certain high-level government jobs which require top-secret security clearance.

2) If you are a wealthy person, you may find countries fighting over your assets upon your death, much as several states fought to get a portion of Howard Hughes assets back in the 1970's (?). In addition, if you happen to pass away while on Italian soil, you may find that your wishes expressed in your Last Will & Testament (if any) are ignored by the Italian courts and your assets will be distributed in accordance with Italian law

3) If your marriage is not strong, you (or your spouse) may find it useful to examine the laws of each country and file divorce action in the one which best serves your/his goals, to the detriment of the other spouse.

Items 2 & 3 are suppositions on my part which I believe accurately reflect possibilities. I invite comments from anyone who can offer more specific information.

[mler]

A security clearance is necessary for certain government jobs, those that require access to sensitive information. Employees of private firms who do business with the government may also be required to obtain such clearances.

The clearances are at various levels depending on the kind of information to which you will have access. Examples of organizations requiring clearance include: FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, military, defense and aeronautic industries, etc.

The clearance level, of course, depends on your position within the organization.

[popogirl79]

well i def have no affiliation with any kind of government jobs, LOL. i am an artist (dancer, actress) and am most interested in going to europe to study. so i wouldn't have to worry about all that security business will i? i should think not. =] at least, i HOPE not......=]

[PeterTimber]

Mr Miers expositon on the 3 areas of security clearance that he rightfully selected to clarify and put into perspective your inquiry left me quite impressed. I laud his efforts and explanation. Give that a man a raise indeed!! =Peter=

[mler]

Thank you, Peter, but you can make that "Ms."

[PeterTimber]

The thought that you might be "Ms Mier" passed thru but Mier did not invoke the image of a long lost love!=Peter=

[sparks59]

Happy New Year!

I am still in the process of trying to figure out if I may be eligible for dual Italian citizenship. According to docket records, my grandmother arrived on Ellis Island on November 6, 1913 aboard the ship Prinzess Irene, which sailed from Palermo, Sicily. We believe our grandfather arrived around the same time frame. They both lived in Utica, New York until their deaths.

In addition to proving that our grandparents never renounced their Italian citizenship, I guess we would also need to verify that they never became naturalized U.S. citizens - would anybody be able to provide the best contact information for confirming this? I tried U.S. Immigrations, but their web site seems to be more geared towards new applicants.

Thanks very much, grazie tante,
sparks59

[johnnyonthespot]

Happy New Year!

I am still in the process of trying to figure out if I may be eligible for dual Italian citizenship. According to docket records, my grandmother arrived on Ellis Island on November 6, 1913 aboard the ship Prinzess Irene, which sailed from Palermo, Sicily. We believe our grandfather arrived around the same time frame. They both lived in Utica, New York until their deaths.

In addition to proving that our grandparents never renounced their Italian citizenship, I guess we would also need to verify that they never became naturalized U.S. citizens - would anybody be able to provide the best contact information for confirming this? I tried U.S. Immigrations, but their web site seems to be more geared towards new applicants.

Thanks very much, grazie tante,
sparks59

Death certificates (of the "long form" type) can be helpful as they normally have an indication of citizenship status.

There are various means to obtain citizenship documents (if any exist), but much depends on how much information you have available. For example, if you know where your grandfather lived while in the US, you can check with the National Archives for that area. If nothing there (National Archives maintains citizenship records for persons who naturalized in a Federal court), you can try checking county or state archives.

Although it usually takes a bit longer, you may want to just go ahead with the USCIS. Visit this page and click the "Make a genealogy request online" link on the right, then proceed with an "Index Search" request. If the Index Search proves fruitful, you then proceed with a Records Request.

Don't worry about proving anything in regards to renouncing citizenship other than the renunciation which is part of the naturalization process.

[johnnyonthespot]

Utica is within Oneida County. The county's web site mentions, "Located on the 8th floor of the County Office building are naturalization records dating back to the early 1800's."

Note that these would be the records of persons who naturalized within the state/county court system (as, in fact, a large percentage of immigrants did during the first half of the 1900's).

[sparks59]

Johnny On the Spot - many, many thanks for such a speedy and helpful reply! May you enjoy countless blessings in 2010!

Kind regards,
sparks59