Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Are you looking for an Italian surname? Do you need more information about your family heritage?
This is the right place to start your genealogy search.
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

Hayley wrote:I can give you the names of his children if you think it would help?
Yes, the children's names might help. It is most frustrating that I cannot find a single census for this family.

I know that doesn't address your main questions, but still...

Question: What else do you know about the odd name change of your great-grandmother? She immigrated as Pasqua Santini, but you seem to know her as Anna Capotoli? Very strange...
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
User avatar
Hayley
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:03

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by Hayley »

Her gravestone says Antonina Capotoli and she was known as Anna / Antonina Olivieri (Capotoli) here. No one in my family seems to know anything about their lives in Italy, and they think that Pasqua Santini may have been her name at birth, and then she was adopted and re-named Antonina Capotoli (or perhaps vice versa?). I myself don't know much more than that, unfortunately. I wish I had more information, and I'm sorry this is so frustrating!

The children's names:

Armand
Gilda
Mario
Michael
Rose
Rocco
Frank

Of the children, I can supply the most information about Mario, as he was my grandfather. He was born 1920, died 1994. I believe they were all born in Beacon, NY (which may or may not have been Brockway at the time).

Thanks so much for your help!
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8066
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by vj »

Hi!
This may help
Valarie

1930 census
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1852/193001.jpg

Home in 1930:
137 Wolcott Ave, owns $3000
Beacon, Dutchess, New York

head Oline Tarquino 41, abt 1889 IT
- married age 24, abt 1913
- immig 1906, Na
- laborer, rail road
wife Pasqua Tarquino 37, abt 1893 IT
- immig 1913
son Armundo Tarquino 15, abt 1915 NY
daughter Guilda Tarquino 13, abt 1917 NY
son Michael Tarquino 11, abt 1919 NY
son Marion Tarquino 9, abt 1921 NY
daughter Rose Tarquino 6, abt 1924 NY
son Rocco Tarquino 4 10/12, abt 1925 NY
son Frank Tarquino 2 3/12, abt 1927 NY
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

You've got to love those census takers. :)
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8066
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by vj »

Same enumerator in 1920?

1920 census
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2963/1920yw.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5093/192001.jpg

Home in 1920:
Brockway, rents
Fishkill, Dutchess, New York

head Oliver Targeunio 31, abt 1889 IT
- imig 1912, Pa
- presser, straw(?) shop
wife Pasqua Targennio 27, abt 1893 IT
- immig 1913, Al
son Armon Targennio 5, abt 1915 NY
daughter Gilda Targennio 3, abt 1917 NY
son Mickhel Targennio 1, abt 1919 NY
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

Hayley wrote:Her gravestone says Antonina Capotoli and she was known as Anna / Antonina Olivieri (Capotoli) here. No one in my family seems to know anything about their lives in Italy, and they think that Pasqua Santini may have been her name at birth, and then she was adopted and re-named Antonina Capotoli (or perhaps vice versa?). I myself don't know much more than that, unfortunately. I wish I had more information, and I'm sorry this is so frustrating!
You know, having nothing else to go on and not knowing anything about your family, my first guess would be that Pasqua Santini died and Tarquinio remarried, his new bride being Anna Capotoli.

As VJ shows, the 1930 census lists her as Pasqua... Where/when did the other name come into play??

I am not ready to buy into the adoption idea just yet. She married and then travelled to the US - as an adult - under the Pasqua Santini name. She appears in the 1930 census as Pasqua... But she is buried as Anna?

Nope. Something is not right here.
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8066
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by vj »

1917 WWI Draft Registration Card (unsigned)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4282/1917p.jpg

born 24 Oct 1888 in Sulmona(?)
served 2 yrs Italian infantry - 8th Alpini Regiment(?)
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

vj wrote:Same enumerator in 1920?
:D

It's no wonder I couldn't find them. This is a case where having the kid's names really makes all the difference.

So, what do you think about this name change thingie with Pasqua / Anna?
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8066
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by vj »

johnnyonthespot wrote: So, what do you think about this name change thingie with Pasqua / Anna?
My 2 cents - I'd order Mario's birth certificate :wink:
http://www.dcgs-gen.org/beacon.htm
User avatar
Hayley
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:03

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by Hayley »

God, you guys are fantastic. I am so impressed. THANK YOU so much!

The birthdate is especially useful, thank you!

I am going to order Mario's birth certificate as soon as I can. However, I live in New York, and they apparently need a court order in NY State unless you're the parent of the person or the person themselves. I will see what I can do. (If anyone has any tips, that would be wonderful.) Or, actually, perhaps that's just for a certified long-form birth certificate?

And then, according to the 1930 census, they were married in 1912? Would I be able to search for a marriage certificate in Sulmona just using the date of 1912?

I would certainly not discount the second wife theory, however I know he's buried next to an Antonina Capotoli, and that my mother's aunt Rose knows her as being Antonina Capotoli (but listed in the census as Pasqua Santini)? Very strange indeed!
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

Capotole (with an "e") is italian for "chapter" like in a book. Capotoli would be the plural, chapters.

Neither spelling exists in modern Italy with enough frequency to appear in the Italian telephone directory ( http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... potoli&dv= ).

As I understand it, foundlings* in Italy were routinely given unusual names which did not exist otherwise (so as not to confuse them with members of a "real" family) and typically all of the foundling children at a particular orphanage** were given the same surname. If I allow my mind to wander, I could imagine Capotoli being one of those names (all the "little chapters" in the orphanage's book...).

Using that scenario, perhaps your great-grandmother began life as a foundling/orphan named Antonina Capotoli and was later adopted by a family who gave her the new name Pasqua Santini. She used the new name thoughout her adult life (married, emigrated, census enumerated...) but at some point reverted to the Capotoli name - perhaps that was the only actual birth certificate she possessed?

That's about the best I can come up with... :)

* Foundling - an abandoned child of unknown parentage. Foundlings were given "new" names simply because their true names were unknown.

** Orphan - (usually) a child who loses his/her parents to disease, war, etc. while still a minor and entrusted to the care of others until adulthood. Orphans mostly retained their original birth names except in the rare instance of a very young child who did not know his/her own name and was not known to local officials.
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

There are six Olivieri's residing in Sulmona listed in the telephone directory - http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... dv=sulmona

You might try writing to some/all of them (in italiano, of course) describing your situation and inquiring if they have any knowledge of Tarquinio and his wife. This tool ( http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... etter.html ) can serve as a start; personally, I would prefer to write a detailed letter in english and then have it professionally translated. Include a few photos and other materials if possible.

You can also try wrting the comune for birth/marriage certificates for Tarquinio/Pasqua/Antonina. The address would be:

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Sulmona
Via Mazara,21
67039 Sulmona AQ
ITALY

Email: comune.sulmona.aq@pec.comnet-ra.it (remove the spaces)
Website: http://www.comune.sulmona.aq.it/web/index.html

Tips on writing letters in Italian:
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... /index.asp
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... tter3.html
http://italiangenealogy.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15162/
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
User avatar
Hayley
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:03

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by Hayley »

Thank you so much for this! The information on names is especially interesting.

I do have a bit of an issue that maybe someone can help with. If I'm correct in reading the census records, it appears that he had filed a petition/application for naturalization on the 1920 census and was naturalized by the 1930 census.

If I am correct in that, is there any way to find when the petition was actually approved? Or was there a standard amount of time in which the petitions went through normally? If he had been approved before my grandfather was born (October 1920), I may not be eligible for the dual citizenship I'm applying for!

Any help would be appreciated.
User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5228
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by johnnyonthespot »

We cannot know for certain, but I would estimate that the odds are greatly in your favor regarding the actual date of naturalization; Tarquinio was still Italian in late January, 1920 and Mario was born that same year?

Your best bet is to go ahead and locate copies of Tarquinio's naturalization documents. There are two primary sources which you can try:

First, The US National Archives For general info: http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/natur ... ation.html

To order records, go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonl ... chives.gov

Click "Order Reproductions", then "Immigration and Naturalization Records". On the next page, click "Naturalization Records" and on the next page, use the dropdown "Select a Delivery Format" to select "Certified Paper Copy" (you'll eventually need a certified copy for your citizenship petition, but you can begin with a non-certified copy for research purposes if you prefer).

The National Archives response time is generally very fast (as little as a few weeks) and not terribly expensive. On the other hand, in many areas including New York, the National Archivies holds records only for naturalizations which took place in the federal court system. At the time in question, a majority of naturalizations actually took place in state and county courts.

The other major option is to go directly to the US Citiznehsip and Immigration Service - USCIS. It will cost more and take longer (months).

Go to http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD and click "Make a Genealogy Request" on the right side of the page. You will need to do an "Index Search" first in an attempt to locate records and , presuming that comes back successfully, you then follow up with a "Records Request".

I hope you will keep in touch and let us know how this turns out!
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)
User avatar
Hayley
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Jul 2010, 17:03

Re: Information on Great-Grandparents from Sulmona

Post by Hayley »

Coincidentally, I've already done all this! It was previously just for insurance purposes, but I guess I'll actually be needing it now! The National Archives got back to me very, very quickly (the next day, practically!) and said there was no record of Tarquinio ever having been naturalized. I'm waiting on the USCIS, but I saw that they are currently processing requests from March (2010) so I know I've got a ways to go on that front.

I have also contacted the Dutchess County clerk's office and asked them for naturalization records, but they haven't gotten back to me either. I'm not sure how long these things take on a county level, but I submitted my request online, so I may have faster results if I go in person?

It's good to know that most of these things were done on county/state level at that time. It explains the National Archives' response, at least!

I really appreciate all your help and hopefully I'll return with a favorable response! :)
Post Reply