La Rotonda Giuseppe ang Maria Gardinetti

[wabash]

I have the same WW1 Draft registration as you. I never noticed the Birth date on my grandfathers death certificate it says his birthdate was Feb 28 I dont know if that is correct. I also noticed my father was Batized as Arcangelo then on other records it sais Archie Robert La Rotonda. Is it possible either the death certificate birth date is wrong or the Draft Reg, card is?
Angie

[suanj]

Angie,
the birthdate as a well the full name on WWI draft registration card are rights.... the birthplace is Albano di Lucania, where the sister lived; Laura found the birth act and it is right; you can be very sure to 100% that is your ancestor; also the ship's manifest is correct...
the birthdate on the death certificate...: the birthdate was provided by informant, and considering the sad circumstance of death, we cannot know why the informant declared the 28 Feb.. he was born on 1 Feb, provided by himself...
suanj

[pink67]

I also noticed my father was Batized as Arcangelo

.. following the italian naming tradition ... first male son named as his paternal grandfather.

I have no doubt too that these records are pertaining your ancestors.

Laura

[wabash]

Thank You so much I do have a question with the information you provided how far can someone go back and what ndo I need to do?

Thank You
Angie

[pink67]

You're welcome Angie, and about the genealogical research I would advice you to read these books (I never read them, but I know from this forum that many persons find them very useful):

Italian Genealogical Records: How to Use Italian Civil, Ecclesiastical & Other Records in Family History Research ; by Trafford R Cole

A Genealogist's Guide to Discovering Your Italian Ancestors (Genealogist's Guides to Discovering Your Ancestor...) ; by Linn Nelson

Laura

[wabash]

Thanks Again

[pink67]

Angie,

I found on the site Ancestry.com a very important document for you.. it's the 1905 act of recognition of Arcangelo La Rotonda about his child who were born from the union with Maria Carbone and from that date the three child took the La Rotonda lastname.
All born in Albano di Lucania:

Carbone Elvira, born on 26 november 1873
Carbone Elisa, born on 11 april 1877
Carbone Roberto Giuseppe, born on 1 february 1885

On the date 16 april 1905 Mr. Arcangelo La Rotonda stated in front of a Notary that the three child were born from his union with Maria Carbone..
This is the document:

http://postimage.org/image/je7woxkij/

The italian transcription of the Notary act is:

L'anno millenovecentocinque il giorno 16 aprile in Albano di Lucania, nel nostro studio,
inanzi a noi Arcangelo Molfesi, Notaio residente in Albano di Lucania con lo studio alla Via Cavour n. 5, iscritto presso il Consiglio Notarile del Distretto di Potenza, ed in presenza dei testimoni Gaspari Ettore fu Giuseppe cottimista nato a Cutigliano e Torre Ottavio di Nicola nato in Albano di Lucania ove sono domiciliati cogniti a noi notaio ed idonei , si è personalmente costituito il Signor Arcangelo La Rotonda fu Gerardo, gentiluomo proprietario nato e domiciliato in Albano di Lucania e ben noto a noi Notaio e testimoni. Il costituito Signor La Rotonda dichiara in presenza nostra e dei testimoni ch'egli verso l'anno milleottocentosettanta conobbe Maria Carbone fu Giovanni, donna di casa, e domiciliata in questo comune di Albano di Lucania allora giovinetta ed onestissima con la quale avendo vissuto sempre in intime relazioni ha avuto tre figli viventi a nome Elvira nata il 26 novembre 1873, Elisa nata il dì 11 aprile 1877 e Roberto Giuseppe nato il 1 febbraio 1885, dichiarati col cognome della madre Carbone, come rilevasi dai rispettivi atti di nascita esistenti nella casa comunale di Albano di Lucania 30 novembre 1873 n. 100, 14 aprile 1877 n. 40, e 3 febbraio 1885 n. 14.
Ora per debito di coscienza e per amore che egli Arcangelo La Rotonda nutre verso i nomati tre figli Elvira, Elisa e Roberto Giuseppe Carbone, riconosce col presente atto tutti e tre i nomati figli per suoi figli naturali , perchè realmente sono figli da lui procreati come si è detto con la Maria Carbone con la quale ha sempre convissuto e convive ed i figli sono sempre stati da lui ritenuti come li ritiene per tali, e perciò li riconosce come suoi figli naturali per farli acquistare giustamente quei diritti che la legge loro riconosce e concede al riguardo a mente del disposto degli articoli 1850 seguenti codice civile assumendo essi da ora in avanti il cognome La Rotonda del dichiarante

Shortly these writing is a public statement about the relationship between him and Maria Carbone (daughter of the late Giovanni).. he met her on the year 1870 (when se was just a young girl) and began his relationship, they lived togheter (but weren't married) and from their union were born the three child. With this act he wanted to recognize the child as his child because he always treated them as his child and he loved them as his child.

Laura

[pink67]

Birth act number 40 - Year 1877

Carbone Elisa was born in Albano di Lucania on the day 11 april 1877, daughter of Maria Carbone, age 28 farmer and of a man who didn't want to be named.

Annotation: On the day 16 april 1905 Elisa Carbone was recognized as daughter of La Rotonda Arcangelo.

image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/wbql71onv/

Laura

[pink67]

Another important document, the marriage act of the older sister of Roberto Giuseppe, Elvira La Rotonda (the marriage date was 1894 and Elvira's lastname was Carbone)

Marriage act number 25 - Year 1894

Groom: Spinelli Michele, age 27, daylabourer, born in Cassano delle Murge (Bari Province - Apulia region) resident in Albano di Lucania, son of the late Giuseppe Farmer and of the living Antonino Filomena Teresa resident in Cassano delle Murge;

Bride: Carbone Elvira, age 21, housewife, born and resident in Albano di Lucania, daughter of the living Maria Carbone farmer and father unknown.

Marriage date: 18 november 1894

image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/k39f6rlaf/

Laura

[pink67]

Elvira La Rotonda's child:

Birth Act number 48 - Year 1896

Spinelli Maria Filomena was born on the day 8 may 1896 in Albano di Lucania, daughter of Michele Spinelli age 28 farmer and of his wife Carbone Elvira seamstress.

Marriage annotation: Maria Filomena Spinelli married Pasquale Taricano son of the living Domenico on the date 27 april 1915.

image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/u0q1rwczd/


Birth Act number 68 - Year 1898

Spinelli Giuseppe was born on the date 3 novembre 1898, son of Michele Spinelli age 31 farmer and of his wife Elvira Carbone seamstress.

Death Annotation: Giuseppe Spinelli died on 1 october 1917 (WW1)

image of the birth act:
http://postimage.org/image/q36epfxc7/

dates about Giuseppe Spinelli's death in the great war:

http://www.cadutigrandeguerra.it/Albo_O ... /2/223.jpg

"Spinelli Giuseppe di Michele
Soldato 32° Reggimento fanteria, nato il 3 novembre 1898 in Albano di Lucania, distretto militare di Potenza, morto il 1° aprile 1917 sul Carso (quota 200) per ferite riportate in combattimento"

Laura

[pink67]

Birth Act number 27 - Year 1904

Spinelli Pasqualina was born on the day 4 april 1904 in Albano di Lucania at the house at the signal tower, daughter of Michele Spinelli age 38 railwayman, and of his wife Elvira Carbone housewife

image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/k15968ed5/

Birth Act number 35 - Year 1906 - Campomaggiore town (Potenza province)

Spinelli Anna Maria was born in Campomaggiore on the day 23 december 1906, daughter of Michele Spinelli age 39 railway watchman, and of his wife La Rotonda Elvira housewife

Image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/5nfnjp9j3/

Death act number 3 - Year 1907

Spinelli Anna Maria died in Albano di Lucania on the day 9 january 1907, she was just 18 days old, daughter of Michele Spinelli resident in Campomaggiore and of Elvira La Rotonda, resident in Campomaggiore

Image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/59nibl473/


Birth Act number 4 - Year 1908

Spinelli Anna Maria was born in Campomaggiore on the day 5 february 1908 daughter of Michele Spinelli age 41 railway watchman and of his wife Elvira La Rotonda

image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/h994ilds7/

Birth act number 19 - Year 1910

Spinelli Arcangelo was born on the day 17 june 1910, sonof Michele Spinelli age 43 railway watchman and of his wife Elvira La Rotonda.

Image from Ancestry.com:
http://postimage.org/image/3xf0178op/

The births databases on Ancestry.com end with the year 1910...

Laura

[pink67]

Angie,
I just found out that Michele Spinelli, Elvira La Rotonda's husband died in Campomaggiore (Potenza Province) on the day 19 august 1931. He was 64 years old. Elvira was living at the time of his death, so possibly she died in campomaggiore too. I checked the deaths database (goes until 1938 but year 1935 is missing) I didn't find her, so maybe she died after 1938.

Laura

[wabash]

This is fantastic I did not expect so much information about my ancestors. I only wish their was a way to retrive Photos of them. I do have a question on both sides of my Great grandparents they had children without being married was this normal?

[pink67]

No it wasn't.... Maybe in this case Arcangelo was coming from a well-to-do family while Maria Carbone was a simply girl from a lower class and Arcangelo's family didn't agree with their relationship .. This is just my opinion.

Laura

[wabash]

THANKS AGAIN