Name Query

[suzyblu]

Hi!

Can anyone help me answer a question?? The only details I have about my gg grandfather is that his name was Peter Carswell and was born in Itlay before moving to Scotland in 1880s. Does anyone know what his name may have been in Italian??

Thank you

Susan

[nuccia]

Hi Susan,

How about Carsullo, Crosello, Caroselli, to name a few possibilities? Which part of Italy did he come from?

Nuccia

[suzyblu]

Thanks Nuccia

All I have on the 1881 census is born Italy and he was 33 then and an ice cream maker! I wish I knew which part.

Susan

[nuccia]

Susan,

This is just a guess here, but do you or any of your family speak Italian? If so, is it a dialect? Any aunts, cousins available to pick their brains? Sometimes its the smallest clue that will give you a hit.

I used a soudex on the name at this site and 681 hits came up. They aren't all from Italy thankfully but have a look through the manifests just to see the spelling variations.

http://stevemorse.org/goulnik/match1.ph ... &dwpdone=1

Good luck and let us know how you make out. Post any addtional info you find as well and we'll try to follow up for you.

Nuccia

[suzyblu]

Noone speaks any Italian, didn't even know he was born in Italy till I found the Census.

According to the census he would have been born in approx 1858 but must have been in Scotland by 1886 as he had children then

Susan

[suanj]

Hi Susan, let us see the census sheet here, perhaps is better...

I think, just my opinion that Pietro changed the surname totally... assuming a scottish surname..
however I know that the ice cream italian vendors (hokey pokey men) in Glasgow coming from Barga town/Tuscany region and Picinisco town/Lazio region especially; before the profession of them was "figurinai" (figure makers) and musicians, but after, cause strong life, they changed the profession becoming the "hokey pokey men" during Scotland's summer..
they screaied: «Gelati, ecco un poco!»/ice creams : here a little! that for ear scottish seemed as: hokey pokey , so the italians was called : "hokey pokey men"!

Was many italians in Glasgow;this is a part of a italian article about ice cream vendors in Glasgow:
" Nel 1903 ci sono 89 gelaterie italiane a Glasgow,
l’anno dopo se ne contano 184. Nel
1905 la cifra sale a 336: in città, a quell’epoca,
abitano 4500-5000 italiani, non tutti gelatai,
ma molti evidentemente sì."
Pratically in 1905 was 4500/5000 italians for most part "hokey pokey men"!

It was italian families/surnames as: Giuliani, Corrieri, Crolla, Pontiero, Rinaldi, Nardini, Di Ciacca, Tognieri, Gatti, Morelli, Sereni, Rizza..

I hope that you can have some suggestion about your ancestor surname... regards, suanj

[BethW]

Hi Susan,

OK, I know this is a stretch... but Nuccia's post reminded me that the Carosella family has had a dolceria in Agnone (formerly in Campobasso, now in Isernia) since the 1830's.

Beth

[suanj]

Hi Beth, in Italy all peoples they know as to make the ice cream!!!Regards, suanj

[ricbru]

Hi Susan,

OK, I know this is a stretch... but Nuccia's post reminded me that the Carosella family has had a dolceria in Agnone (formerly in Campobasso, now in Isernia) since the 1830's.

Beth

At this point, even if in Italy, as sunaj said, anyone is able to make icecream, and nuccia told you about Carosella family in Agnone, just try to rent Agnone microfilm.
You said that you Peter Carswell on 1881 census was 33 years old ( so born about 1848)

rent this one

Nati 1840-dic. 1851 FHL INTL Film
1338634

or write the request to Agnone civil record office

Comune
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Via G. Verdi 9
86081 Agnone (IS)
Italy

segretario@comune.agnone.is.it

or contact

Archivio di stato di Isernia

bye Riccardo

[suzyblu]

Thanks everyone!!

What is 'Dolceria'?

I am a bit confused so you think Carswell may have been Carosella?

I am new to this searching in Italy, what is on the microfilm? I am not in Italy I am currently in Australia but back in UK next month. I take it you don't have them online?

Realistically do you really think I will ever find out where he was from?

Susan

[suanj]

Hi the first and right thing of to make is to search the right italian spelling surname: it could be Carvelli/a/o, Carselli/a/o, Carelli/a/o; without the right spelling is impossible to find something; however you can search in Glasgow the italian surnames present in 1891 because I think that as all italian immigrant in foreign country, he moved with some contact already in scotland!
So it is also possible that you find some similar version, just for to have almost little idea!
It is a italian surname in Scotland, AND OBVIOUSLY IS NOT YOUR ANCESTORS, BECAUSE ALREADY DIED, but is interesting equally because this man born in Scotland, but the surname is a italian surname...

Name: Peter Carella
Birth: abt 1881 - Scotland
Residence: 1901 - city, Durham, England
just a little advice for your search!
suanj

[elba]

Hi Susan

The word 'dolce' means sweet. So a 'dolciere' is a confectioner.

'Dolcieria' then will be a sweet factory or sweet shop.

As regards to everyone in Italy making ice cream - not quite right. Yes many people, especially in the southern part of the country, are capable of doing so....Whereas in the north maybe not as many. Among my group if friends and acquaintances here in the north, I only know four people who have grown up with the ablity to make ice cream. Yet I do have friends, who are pure descendants of Italian immigrants, in both Wales and England who still own 'Ice Cream Parlours'! So it is certainly possible that your ancestor was engaged in that work....

I am aware that there are very large numbers of Italians in Scotland and particularly in Glasgow. I have always found it fascinating to listen to those who speak Italian, when they do so with such a lovely Scottish accent.....
BTW I'm a 'Brit' too!

Elba

[Marisa6]

Hi Susan

I have been looking at Peter's census listing on the Scotlands People website. Sorry if I am asking the obvious - but did you look for his marriage certificate to Elizabeth? That certificate ought to have his parents names on it which might give a clue to his original name. Elizabeth was a Scot - so I imagine they probably married in Scotland. Failing that - the childrens birth certificates will give the date and place of the parents marriage, and you can perhaps find it from there. There is no birth for a Helen Carswell in the right year - but try under Ellen. There were also 11 Johns born in the right timeframe. If you need any help email me. I don't know much about US or Italian records, but I am very familiar with Scottish stuff!

Marisa

[mahart]

Hi Susan,

The name Peter Carswell on the 1881 census, are you looking at a transribed document or a copy of the original? If it is transcribed then it may have been copied incorrectly. Also you mention that there was no knowledge of anyone originating form Italy in your family, ask questions of older family members to try to confirm his origin because I once come across a census return stating that an ancestor of mine came from France and I have since found out that he came from Italy so it could be a mistake.
Also I had quick look on the Anglo-Italian website, which has the 1841-1891 census returns for people born in Italy in PDF format. I could not find a Peter Carswell on the 1881 return so it may have been transcribed differently on their returns so worth checking out:
http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk/docs ... tions.html

It might also be worth checking the Scots-Italian web:
http://www.scotsitalian.com/

Regards

[Marisa6]

Hi Mark

Peter is on the 1891 census. There is no Peter Carswell, or anyone/anything similar who was born in Italy in the whole of lowland Scotland on the 1881 census - I checked! I also cant find him on the 1901 census, although I haven't looked too carefully at that yet.

Marisa