USCIS records requests and FOIA

[khawthorne]

Hi all,

Still chugging along on gathering documents for a 1948 case.

I need to request my great grandparents' certificates of naturalization from USCIS. I have all required information, including certificate numbers. However, I'm a bit confused about how FOIA plays into all this. From USCIS's website:

You can help speed our response to your record request by providing proof of death for any other persons you expect will be identified in a file. If all individuals identified in the file are proven deceased, the file can be released without processing under the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act. Other persons most commonly found in the records are the immigrant subject's children, spouse, and/or siblings. Acceptable documentary proof includes any of the following:

https://www.uscis.gov/history-and-genea ... -questions

I know that at least some of my great grandparents' children are listed on their petitions for naturalization, which is a record that should be included in this request. Not all of the children are deceased, though my grandfather is. Will this prevent me from being able to obtain these records from USCIS?

I hunted around their website for solid information, but was unable to find any. I also tried to call their office, to no avail.


Thanks in advance!

Kim

[mler]

I never applied for naturalization records from the USCIS, but it is my understanding that they will send you only the certificate of naturalization. The naturalization certificate does NOT include the names of spouses or children.

The name of the spouse and names of children are indeed listed on the petition, but pre-naturalization documents (declaration, petition and usually oath) are obtained through NARA. For what it's worth, I obtained the pre-naturalization documents for my grandfather from NARA, even though my father and his siblings (all listed on the petition) were still living.

[khawthorne]

Awesome, thanks for the info!

I haven't found anyone on this forum with FOIA issues when requesting through USCIS, so I think I'll go ahead and do it and hope for the best.

[OpusReticulatum]

I requested my great-grandfather's naturalization certificate from USCIS a couple of years ago. When it arrived, it came with the paperwork for his declaration of intent and his petition for citizenship. Apparently, they send you everything they have in your ancestor's citizenship file.

The point about speeding things up, and whether or not your relatives are alive, relates to the USCIS policy of blacking out references on the forms to anyone who is or might still be alive.

Prior to requesting the naturalization certificate from USCIS, I obtained my great-grandfather's declaration of intent, petition, and signed oath from the county Hall of Records. These records were complete and unredacted. They had both of my great-granparents on them, as well as all of my great-grandparents' children, along with their dates of birth.

When I received the same from USCIS, the information on my grandmother and her siblings were all blocked out, since they could realistically still be alive (and in fact, some are, some are not). I'm guessing that their policy is anyone born less than 100 years ago is automatically redacted.

Apparently, it's the redaction that adds time, since they have to go through the files and identify anyone who might still be living.

My cousin requested the same packet from USCIS last year and it took about three or four months to receive the same documents, and they were likewise redacted.

So, if you know who is going to be listed on the paperwork, and they are all deceased, it should help speed things along to provide proof of death for anyone who is deceased. However, I'm not sure how much faster the request will go. Also, note that the wording says, " If all individuals identified in the file are proven deceased." So, if some people are dead and some are not, the request will still have to go through FOIA processing.

It would be nice if they offered an option to request just the naturalization certificate alone. That would save both the USCIS, and many requestors, a lot of time.

[jennabet]

I don't know of any consulate that would approve a ius sanguine request with just the naturalization certificate of the ancestor. The petition is particularly critical because it contains the most information about the descendants of the person naturalized.

[datxcali]

I requested my great-grandfather's naturalization certificate from USCIS a couple of years ago. When it arrived, it came with the paperwork for his declaration of intent and his petition for citizenship. Apparently, they send you everything they have in your ancestor's citizenship file.

The point about speeding things up, and whether or not your relatives are alive, relates to the USCIS policy of blacking out references on the forms to anyone who is or might still be alive.

Prior to requesting the naturalization certificate from USCIS, I obtained my great-grandfather's declaration of intent, petition, and signed oath from the county Hall of Records. These records were complete and unredacted. They had both of my great-granparents on them, as well as all of my great-grandparents' children, along with their dates of birth.

When I received the same from USCIS, the information on my grandmother and her siblings were all blocked out, since they could realistically still be alive (and in fact, some are, some are not). I'm guessing that their policy is anyone born less than 100 years ago is automatically redacted.

Apparently, it's the redaction that adds time, since they have to go through the files and identify anyone who might still be living.

My cousin requested the same packet from USCIS last year and it took about three or four months to receive the same documents, and they were likewise redacted.

So, if you know who is going to be listed on the paperwork, and they are all deceased, it should help speed things along to provide proof of death for anyone who is deceased. However, I'm not sure how much faster the request will go. Also, note that the wording says, " If all individuals identified in the file are proven deceased." So, if some people are dead and some are not, the request will still have to go through FOIA processing.

It would be nice if they offered an option to request just the naturalization certificate alone. That would save both the USCIS, and many requestors, a lot of time.

This is the correct response.

I actually ordered a bunch of naturalization records through USCIS (one for dual citizenship, others because they have pictures of my ancestors ).

What I found a bit strange is that one of my ancestors (not the one through which I'm claiming Italian citizenship) is currently going through an FOIA check. However, his youngest child was born in 1910. I have his Petition so I know that this is true (and my father was very close with this side of the family and confirmed that there were no more siblings).

So I'm not sure why it needs that extra step. I assumed that everything would be fine if it's more than 100 years since their birth.

So either way, I've decided to send all of the death certificates for my Italian line (luckily, my mother has all of the originals since my grandfather's two siblings that will be on my GGF's petition did not have children) even though the last one was born in 1916 just to make sure.

[jennabet]

The name of the spouse and names of children are indeed listed on the petition, but pre-naturalization documents (declaration, petition and usually oath) are obtained through NARA. For what it's worth, I obtained the pre-naturalization documents for my grandfather from NARA, even though my father and his siblings (all listed on the petition) were still living.

Interesting. So why didn't you include the petition with your application at the consulate? You have stated in these forums that you only gave the consulate the naturalization certificate and they accepted it, which any of us know, who have been recognized through a consulate that that is simply not the case.

[mler]

Jennebet, you repeatedly make up stories about what I submitted. I suggest you review back posts to refresh your memory.

I will tell you yet again that I never submitted my gf's naturalization certificate. I submitted only the NARA documents but pulled out the petition because my father's birthdate was incorrect. Fortunately, the consular officer reviewing my documents was only interested in the oath.

Why you are so interested in the documents I submitted is beyond me. However in the future, if you wish to reference my case, get your facts straight.

BTW, you stated that the petition was the most important document. Surprising then, that with only the oath, my citizenship was recognized.

Only the consulate determines what is a critical document.

[mler]

I would also add, jennebet, is that there is is only one thing "we all know." Everyone's experience is different, and what was accepted at one consulate, may not be accepted in another; and what was accepted last year or ten years ago may not be accepted this year.

[jennabet]

When I received the same from USCIS, the information on my grandmother and her siblings were all blocked out, since they could realistically still be alive (and in fact, some are, some are not). I'm guessing that their policy is anyone born less than 100 years ago is automatically redacted.

Would you happen to know when USCIS started to implement this policy? I would think if it has been since the new administration in Washington took effect, it is actually a good thing in that in gives additional privacy rights to American citizens which are more in line with privacy rights that exist in the European Union. Shortly after moving to Italy, in order to know better how I was related to a certain cousin (still living), I asked my commune for birth information on his parents and was told I was not allowed to have this information. I have also noticed that suanj, the Italian geneaology researcher who does excellent work on this site, has noted on her website that she cannot provide information on the natural parents of foundlings or adoptees in Italy. Again, the protection of privacy rights for living people and this is a good thing.

[OpusReticulatum]

When I received the same from USCIS, the information on my grandmother and her siblings were all blocked out, since they could realistically still be alive (and in fact, some are, some are not). I'm guessing that their policy is anyone born less than 100 years ago is automatically redacted.

Would you happen to know when USCIS started to implement this policy? I would think if it has been since the new administration in Washington took effect, it is actually a good thing in that in gives additional privacy rights to American citizens which are more in line with privacy rights that exist in the European Union.

I'm not sure when this policy started. It was in place at least as far back as sometime in 2014, when I requested my documents.