Creating a Delayed Italian Birth Certificate

[jennabet]

Recreate a birth certificate that was destroyed? How do you know it was destroyed? Did you see it before it was destroyed?

[adelfio]

How did you get Giovanni's birth date what records do you have to show that info

Marty

[adelfio]

Couple questions
Do you have his parents marriage act?
How about siblings?
Have you gone through the registry page by page for 1881?

Marty

[MCKay]

Recreate a birth certificate that was destroyed? How do you know it was destroyed? Did you see it before it was destroyed?

This is very true that I did not see it before it was destroyed. However, all of the documentation my Great Grandfather filled out had the same birthdate and place listed.

I've been working on this for a number of years and as a last ditch effort I actually went to the town myself. I saw firsthand that the church baptism book for that year was not in existence. The priest told me directly that it was burned up in a fire. Unfortunately the only book his certificate would have been in would have been the Church's since he was not registered by the state. Also, unfortunately, he may have never been registered with the state or church. Regarding the state's documentation: I went page by page in the official records room of the town with 3 very helpful city officials and one genealogist and none of us could find anything other than his parent's marriage certificate. His birth was not listed on this marriage certificate.

[MCKay]

Couple questions
Do you have his parents marriage act?
How about siblings?
Have you gone through the registry page by page for 1881?

Marty

I do have his parent's Marriage certificate yes.

I don't know about any siblings.

I did go through the registry page by page for 1881 in the town itself.

[MCKay]

How did you get Giovanni's birth date what records do you have to show that info

Marty

His alien registration card listed his birthdate and birthplace.

His application for citizenship (which never was completed) also listed the same birthdate and birthplace.

[jennabet]

Did he arrive in America with his parents or did he arrive alone? If arrived with parents it would be unlikely he could have used false identity. If he arrived alone as an adult he could have assumed the identity of the child with the same name that died at an early age. If so, it would be a good reason his parents never registered his birth. Perhaps you really don't know who this man was and without a witness who knew him in his town, no one is going to make up a birth certificate.

[Italysearcher]

The book in the town may have been destroyed but the 2nd copy at the State Archives still exists and his birth is not registered there. SO...he was born elsewhere. You didn't find his baptism either, so...he was born and baptized elsewhere.
The lista di leva should be checked for the entire area. He will be in the Lista di Leva no matter where he was born.

[jennabet]

I don't agree that he was born and baptized elsewhere at least not as the offspring of these parents because the three helpful city officials and the geneaologist who he met with in person would have been able to give some suggestions as to where to look but apparently they were also at a loss. Again, I think we are talking about an immigrant who assumed someone else's identity when he went to America.

[adelfio]

Can you post or a pg link to the parents marriage record and his so I can see?

Marty

[Italysearcher]

If the mother was having difficulties with the pregnancy and delivered in hospital out of town OR she was visiting in another town when the birth took place, the birth and baptism would have been registered in that town.

[MCKay]

Can you post or a pg link to the parents marriage record and his so I can see?

Marty

I'm not sure if these are in the right order but here you go:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-i3zV ... sp=sharing

[MCKay]

Did he arrive in America with his parents or did he arrive alone? If arrived with parents it would be unlikely he could have used false identity. If he arrived alone as an adult he could have assumed the identity of the child with the same name that died at an early age. If so, it would be a good reason his parents never registered his birth. Perhaps you really don't know who this man was and without a witness who knew him in his town, no one is going to make up a birth certificate.

He did arrive alone... But I do not believe he arrived as an adult. More a young teen.

[MCKay]

The book in the town may have been destroyed but the 2nd copy at the State Archives still exists and his birth is not registered there. SO...he was born elsewhere. You didn't find his baptism either, so...he was born and baptized elsewhere.
The lista di leva should be checked for the entire area. He will be in the Lista di Leva no matter where he was born.

We already checked the Lista di Leva. We also checked the other towns in the area but I must admit: we didn't check ALL of the towns in Sicily.

[MCKay]

I don't agree that he was born and baptized elsewhere at least not as the offspring of these parents because the three helpful city officials and the geneaologist who he met with in person would have been able to give some suggestions as to where to look but apparently they were also at a loss. Again, I think we are talking about an immigrant who assumed someone else's identity when he went to America.

I guess this could be true. But I don't really see any reason to do this at such a young age. Also, I don't know why he would have chosen such a small unknown town to pick from. Lastly, he was quite good at the documentation of the names of his parents and at least consistent with his date of birth.