Input on Application

[Spera219]

With the help of this genealogy forum and specifically Tessa78, I've pieced together my linage GGF - GF - F to Capestrano. Yeah!

I have a good handle on the requirements, read the Philadelphia Consulates instructions and ready to work on the application. And wait.

My questions to the forum are -

1) My Great GF and GF have some given name discrepancies on documents. Great Grandfather birth cert and marriage record given name is Giamberardino, on my GF's birth certificate it's Berardino and his death cert. states John. I think the consulate will Berardino as Giamberardino, but what about "John"?

2) My Grandfather's given name at birth (born in US) was Guido Vittoria and Guido V on his marriage license. However, his name is Joseph on my fathers Birth Cert and his Death Cert. What is the best approach to correct?

3) Lastly, I plan to apply with my two adult children and my wife. Does anyone see that as a problem? And do they all need to be present at the consulate meeting.

Thank you all for your help!

[mler]

Treatment of discrepancies is totally at the discretion of the consulate. That being said, my thoughts follow:

1. The Giamberardino to Berardino MAY prove acceptable since it appears that he simply dropped the first part of his name. I’m guessing his family called him John (Gian) and that is why it appears on his death certificate. This may also be acceptable because it seems to correspond to the first part of his given name (and also the information was provided by a relative, not by him). Again, this is my logic. The consulate may not agree.

2. Guido more accurately translates to Guy, so Joseph doesn’t seem to work. If your grandmother is still living, it may be possible to amend the birth certificate depending on the laws in your state. You will need to check your options.

3. Yes, you can apply with your adult children if the consulate allows you to make an appointment that will accommodate all of you. If you married before 1983, your wife can make an appointment as well. If you married after 1983, she will need to wait for your citizenship to be recognized before she can apply.

[Spera219]

Thanks for the responses.

I was planning on contacting vital records on the process to change records for my grand father, since my grandmother has passed. I’m still searching for a legal name change, by going to the Philadelphia archives, but don’t hold to much hope. Luckily, I believe, in Pennsylvania you don’t need a court order or immediate relative to request changes if there birth year is more than 100 years ago.

Another question for the group — which documents should I change? Should I try to change GF’s birth and marriage Or his death and my fathers death certificate? One thing to note my GF’s name on census records appear as both, deciphering the handwriting.

[mler]

Check with the State of Pennsylvania to determine which, if any, documents can be amended. Certainly, the two names on the census records will help you in making the connection.

[Spera219]

I’m planning in calling vital records tomorrow, both in Philadelphia and the state. There are some dates where state directs you to the county in Pennsylvania. I just hope I don’t need to go through a “one and the same”court order.

I’ll let everyone know what I find.

Thanks.

[jennabet]

The Italian translation of Guy is Gaetano and not Guido.

[mler]

It’s both.

“Guido. Guido is a given name Latinised from the Old High German name Wido that originated in Medieval Italy. Guido later became a male first name in Austria, Germany, the Low Countries, Spain, Portugal and Switzerland. The given name Guy is the French variant of Guido.”

Also here:

http://www.conigliofamily.com/SicilianA ... nNames.htm

[jennabet]

No it is not both. My next door neighbor in Delaware born and raised in Abruzzo was named Guido. Nobody ever called him Guy. My cousin, living two doors up from Guido was named Gaetano. Everyone called him Guy. I would think the OP is not interested in the French name for Guy since his ancestors aren't French. There is no indication that the OP's Italian ancestors named Guido were ever called Guy. In Italy the name for Guy is Gaetano.

[mler]

Jennebet, look at the link. It lists Italian names and their English translations (not French). Guido is translated into English as Guy.

Gaetano is indeed also translated as Guy, and seems a more logical translation. Guido, however, is also listed as Guy.

The translation of names varies. For example, Vincenzo is generally and logically translated as Vincent, but several posters indicate that their ancestors with the birth name Vincenzo were called James. I’ve never seen it translated that way, but apparently it is quite common. (That is also listed on the link I provided.)

Again, take a look at the translation link.

(Btw, the list also notes that Gaetano may also be translated as Tom.). Name translations are often counterintuitive.

I’m adding another translation list, in case you are unable to access the first:

http://www.oocities.org/irishkenj/givename.html

Unfortunately, Guido does not translate to Joesph, and therein lies the problem.

[Spera219]

Update --

Pennsylvania requires a court order to change a birth or death certificate, even a given name, if the individual is deceased.

I'm going to check the Philadelphia archives for a legal name change, but not holding out hope.

So, now I can get a court order to change my GF's birth and marriage to Joseph Or go for a one and the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, with all the back and forth about Guido, I'm guessing my Grandfather's death cert. stating John should be okay. Right? Reason I'm asking is if i have to go for a one and the same I do both together.

Thanks all!

[mler]

John should be ok for two reasons:

It appears to be the first part of his given name, and the death certificate is not as critical as the other documents.

If you can amend the documents with a court order, that would be preferable because it carries official weight. The birth certificate is a critical document, so name consistency is important.

[Spera219]

I went to the Philadelphia City Archives and there is no record difference from the State (which State Vital Records suggested) and no record of an official name change.

So, I'm going the court order route. I'm trying it myself without a lawyer for budget reasons, but do have several supporting docs to show its the same person. Including a letter from the PA State Archives that no other Spera was born on his birthday. Fingers crossed.

So question for the forum -
1) I must change both my GF's birth cert. and Marriage cert. I have his children's birth certs, the archive letter, Social security application and death certificate ; all showing my father and GM linking back to my GF. The question is can I or should I proceed with a court order (lawsuit) together or separately?

2) I may hedge and look into my Wife's side. I have some information and think there may be less issues, but don't know yet. Question is can I add her to my appointment at the consulate and after one of use gets citizenship, how do we have to wait another year to get a consulate appt?

Grazie!

[Spera219]

I'm sorry another question.

I haven't heard back from the consulate on this. The Philly consulate instructions state the requirement for marriage licenses and marriage certificates. Doesn't just the exemplified copy of the marriage certification/record suffice?

[mler]

I think they are now asking for licenses as well, because they contain additional information.

[brynelizabeth]

Update --

Pennsylvania requires a court order to change a birth or death certificate, even a given name, if the individual is deceased.

I'm going to check the Philadelphia archives for a legal name change, but not holding out hope.

So, now I can get a court order to change my GF's birth and marriage to Joseph Or go for a one and the same. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, with all the back and forth about Guido, I'm guessing my Grandfather's death cert. stating John should be okay. Right? Reason I'm asking is if i have to go for a one and the same I do both together.

Thanks all!

I'm writing to know what happened with your name changes in PA? Did you end up getting a court order?

I got one and the court mandated PA Vital Records to send me a corrected birth certificate in 2 weeks. I've been waiting for 6 months.

The Special Cases unit of Vital Records contacted me last week saying that the court order is now "not sufficient". Now they say I need to get an Apostille from Italy for my GGPs marriage certificate, translate that, then send that in to them. That's after the court already inspected all my documents.

I'm pretty peeved about all this. I wonder what your more recent experience has been?