Hello,
My GGGF (Giovanni Di Persia) was born in Italy in 1849. He arrived in the US with his 1st wife in 1874. In searching for his naturalization record, I cannot find anything that is an exact match. There is a surname difference. The naturalization record has the surname Di Persico (a valid Italian surname) and was issued in 1888. At this point, I cannot validate that this is his naturalization record.
His first wife died and he remarried my GGGM (Carmela Di Santi) who was also born in Italy. She was previously married as well (in Italy). Her first husband died after coming to the US. Also, I cannot determine if her husband naturalized.
Giovanni and Carmela had my GGF (John) in 1897. My GGF married and had my GM in 1927. My GM married and had my father in 1947.
Here are my questions:
1. Does not being able to validate a naturalization record for my GGGF block my chances?
2. If my GGGF naturalized in 1888 did my GGGM lose her citizenship when they married?
3. Is my father's birth before 1948 a problem? I assume it is.
Thanks for your help.
Tom
Dual Citizenship Complicated Case - questions
Re: Dual Citizenship Complicated Case - questions
1. Naturalization information is critical. You need to prove he did naturalize (and when) or that he never naturalized. Nothing proceeds without this information.
2. If your gggf naturalized in 1888, your grandmother naturalized as well. Since she would not have done so on her own behalf, you would have a court case in which you claim citizenship through a woman who never herself naturalized.
3. If going through your gggm, a court case is essential.
I should point out that a few lawyers have been reluctant to take on a court case such as the one in Number 2, but I believe there have been some willing to do so.
You case is complicated further because you are tracing your lineage so far back and you will need to find death records for first marriages. It’s a formidable task, but if you have the time and money and really want this, you might give it a try. Best of luck.
2. If your gggf naturalized in 1888, your grandmother naturalized as well. Since she would not have done so on her own behalf, you would have a court case in which you claim citizenship through a woman who never herself naturalized.
3. If going through your gggm, a court case is essential.
I should point out that a few lawyers have been reluctant to take on a court case such as the one in Number 2, but I believe there have been some willing to do so.
You case is complicated further because you are tracing your lineage so far back and you will need to find death records for first marriages. It’s a formidable task, but if you have the time and money and really want this, you might give it a try. Best of luck.
Re: Dual Citizenship Complicated Case - questions
Thank for you the information!
After reviewing the both the petition and naturalization records again, I have confirmed that it is his naturalization (the surname was noted differently on the two documents with the petition being incorrect) and it occurred on Sept 15, 1888.
Based on this, as you have said, a court case is essential. I have all the necessary records, birth, marriage and death records of my whole line including previous marriages and the deaths of those spouses. Of course, most will need to be certified and apostilled.
It now comes down to if someone is willing to take this case, and if I have the necessary money.
Thanks again.
After reviewing the both the petition and naturalization records again, I have confirmed that it is his naturalization (the surname was noted differently on the two documents with the petition being incorrect) and it occurred on Sept 15, 1888.
Based on this, as you have said, a court case is essential. I have all the necessary records, birth, marriage and death records of my whole line including previous marriages and the deaths of those spouses. Of course, most will need to be certified and apostilled.
It now comes down to if someone is willing to take this case, and if I have the necessary money.
Thanks again.
Re: Dual Citizenship Complicated Case - questions
You’ve already done the hard part. The rest will be relatively easy.
Note that Italian documents should be certified but obviously don’t require apostilles. Your contention is that your gggm obtained US citizenship automatically through marriage. Because she didn’t herself naturalize, she retained her Italian citizenship. This, as noted earlier, requires a court case (but the pre-1948 birth made that necessary anyway).
I applied through the consulates, but from what I’ve read, it seems only Luigi Paiano is reluctant to take on such cases. Perhaps his opinion has now changed, though. Check with several.
Good luck.
Note that Italian documents should be certified but obviously don’t require apostilles. Your contention is that your gggm obtained US citizenship automatically through marriage. Because she didn’t herself naturalize, she retained her Italian citizenship. This, as noted earlier, requires a court case (but the pre-1948 birth made that necessary anyway).
I applied through the consulates, but from what I’ve read, it seems only Luigi Paiano is reluctant to take on such cases. Perhaps his opinion has now changed, though. Check with several.
Good luck.