Picozzi family ancestry

[Dalogi]

Thank you SO much to everyone who has left messages in this post. I'm learning so much from you all.

Suanj - Thank you for the information about Tomasso Picozzi. I had a feeling he may be Carlo's father. A bit of a long shot, but the marriage dates tallied with Carlo's birth, and I've seen references to Maddaloni before. Also, the point you made about the names being common in Lazio may prove to be very useful. Thanks once again.

Marisa - Thanks for the information on why Italians emmigrated at that time in history. I didn't know any of that. Hopefully I can fill in all the pieces of my jigsaw. Fingers crossed indeed.

The search continues...

Thanks to all,
David

[suanj]

Hi David, I think that this tommaso Picozzi is not related with your Carlo.. Romolo first name is from Roma area(in Lazio region).. more: why Carlo no named the oldest son as Tommaso?, so is Italy use.. if you don't find some other detail about Carlo i think that will be impossible to find the right birthplace.. regards, suanj

[Dalogi]

Thanks for the extra info, Suanj. Is it a common custom to name the first-born son after the childs grandfather? If this is the case, Carlo named his fist son Alexander. Hypothetically speaking, could Carlo's father have been called Alessandro? I'll do some record checks. Thanks once again.

I have a general question. To find out where Carlo was born in Italy, would I have to write to all the comunes in the places I suspect he could have lived - ie. Lazio and Campania? Or, is there a more straight-forward way of finding out this information?

If I do have to write to them, what questions should I ask? I know it sounds a silly question, but I'm not sure if there are formal Italian practises to adhere to.

Anyway, once again, if anyone can help, I would be truly grateful.

Thanks to everyone,
David

[jcsm400]

Copied from the home page.



Italian Naming Traditions and their Ramifications

There has been a strong custom in Italy that determines how children are named. The first male is named after his paternal grandfather. The second male is named after his maternal grandfather. The first female is named after her paternal grandmother. The second female is named after her maternal grandmother.


So, yes Carlo's father could be Alessandro (Italian form of Alexander).

Writing to each town would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack!
There are 551 muncipalities in Compania & probably abt same for the other region.

Hopefully, another member will have a better suggestion!

[Marisa6]

Hi Folks

David - related to the topic of the naming tradition, have you derived all of your info from ancestry, or have you looked at the likes of free bmd? ( http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl ). On freebmd there seem to be a couple of Picozzi families, but there is an Alexander born the year after Carlo married, and Romolo's first name is listed as Giuseppe. If these were first and second born sons it would have a bearing on possible grandfathers names. It might be worth ordering some of these certificates. It costs about £7.50 each, and the service is quite quick.

Marisa

edit - on second thoughts it is all the one family with lots of kids!!

[jcsm400]

There is a Carlo Picozzi born abt 1845 on the 1891 England census, living in London. Probably the same as the one on the 1881 that Marisa provided.
Sorry, I don't have World Ancestry, but maybe another member can post the info.

I have a question. Do you know where & when he died? Do you have his death certificate? This may list town of birth. If this has been asked & answered, sorry, I missed it.

[jcsm400]

David,

You may also want to order this record, it's registered in 1875. Don't think he (your Carlo's) would have a son of marriageable age, but a nephew?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Record
about Carlo Picozzi
Name: Carlo Picozzi
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Chelsea (1841-1981)
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 486 (click to see others on page)

[Dalogi]

That's one of my biggest obstacles. The fact that I don't know where and when he was born, or where and when he died. You have to know details like this to order copies of birth/death certificates. It's a bit of a 'catch 22' situation.

All I was told from my grandad before he died was that his grandmother's maiden name was Kate Picozzi and her father was an Italian immigrant. Even my grandad was unsure what part of Italy the family came from. He had a hazy memory of them coming from Naples. Everything else I know I've found online and from the excellent advice from forum members.

Any more information on how to search for death certificates with only the name to go on, would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks all,
David

[nuccia]

Here's the census jcsm mentioned above..

1891 England Census Recordinfo
about Carlo Picozzi
Name: Carlo Picozzi
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where Born: Italy

Civil parish: St Anne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Source information: RG12/88
Registration district: Westminster
Sub registration district: St Anne Soho
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Folio: 239
Page: 45 (click to see others on page)
GSU Number: 6095198

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2079/imagex0xd.gif

1901 census info

1901 England Census Recordinfo
about Carlo Picozzi
Name: Carlo Picozzi
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Household: View other family members
Gender: Male
Where born: Ita Italian Subject

Civil parish: St Anne Soho
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary the Virgin
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Source information: RG13/100
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St Anne Soho
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Folio: 45
Page: 34 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 256

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/1565/imagex7ty.gif

Hope this helps.
Nuccia

[jcsm400]

Nuccia,

Many thanks for posting the info & linking.

It is information on Carlo (b. abt 1845) and Emma and their family.



David,

This is only a suggestion, but you may want to write the church and ask for all records on this family and also if they have membership record for Carlo. He may have even died here. The more records you get, the more chance you have of getting town of birth. It would definitely be easier than writing to all the towns in Italy

jscm

[jcsm400]

David,

I find this site that may interest you. Checking earlier censuses may narrow down immigration time frame.

http://www.censusfinder.com/england.htm

Hope it helps.

[nuccia]

You're welcome, Joyce...as you know...just part of the team!

Nuccia

[Marisa6]

Hi Ladies

This stuff is great! Ok David - Jcsms suggestion that you write to the church St Anne's in Soho is a really good one. This family did not budge from London from the 1881-1901 censuses, and the fact that they remained in the same parish certainly in 91 and 01 means there should be some church records. You might find a date of death from that. Average life expectancy in the cities at that point in time was 45 - and Carlo had well passed that by 1901. It is also worth seeing if his death cert is lodged in Westminster registration district. You might be able to find out something in a phone call.

I don't think that Carlo anglicised his name as you mentioned in earlier posts - otherwise it would have changed on the censuses. His childrens names are interesting. The first child was called Alexander Charles on the birth listing - but Charles Alexander on the death listing. Romolo Giuseppe is also listed as Giuseppe Romolo. Worth keeping in mind when searching for certificates. They might not have the name you expect!! Its all done to confuse

Marisa

[Marisa6]

Brain isn't working this morning 8O There is a death listing for Emma Picozzi aged 51 in the quarter starting March 1908 in Westminster. So they were still there in 1908. In Scotland this certificate would state whether Carlo was still alive or not - but I don't know if that is also true for English certificates. At any rate - it narrows down the area and timeframe!

Marisa

PS - birth listings for this family in Westminster start in 1885 and are consistant. I would put money (and I am a Scot!) on this being your district for his death cert.

[Dalogi]

This is brilliant! Thanks to all of you for helping with my Picozzi search. I really feel like I've learned so much from you all. I agree with Marisa that the idea of writing to St. Annes church is an excellent one. So thanks very much to jcsm.

Right, I'm gonna go now and start writing. One more thing. Marisa - where did you find the death records for Emma Picozzi? That would be a handy link to have.

Thanks all,
David