Pisani & Nestico Isca sullo Ionio/Sant'andrea apostolo dello ionio to Shamokin & Kulpmont PA

[afecad]

I have been trying to track down my Great-Grandparents & Great-Great Grandparents birth, marriage and death certificates in Italy.

My Maternal Grandfather (Guido Pisani, born in Shamokin, PA 1915 died 2015) was the son of Raffaele (Ralph) Pisani who immigrated from Italy around the turn of the century and settled in Shamokin, Northumberland County, Pennsylvania. Ralph married Madalene Nestico (My Great-Grandmother) who was born in Isca sullo Ionio.

Raffaele (Ralph) Pisani

Birth 24 JAN 1882 Italy (Isca sullo Ionio? (Isca noted on his Ellis Island Entry Documents) Date of birth is not known to be correct, year is believed to be correct.
Death 13 APR 1945 • Mahoning, Montour, Pennsylvania, USA

Madaleena (Madalene or Lena) Nestico

BIRTH 15 JAN 1894 • Isca sullo Ionio, Catanzaro, Calabria, Italy
DEATH 22 NOV 1980 • Shamokin, Northumberland, Pennsylvania, USA

It is believed that Ralph was born in Sant'Andrea Apostolo dello Ionio, where his older Brother Francesco (Frank) Pisani was born. A cousin of my Grandfather noted this recently and I personally visited both Sant'Andrea Apostolo dello Ionio & Isca sullo Ionio last year with a Translator at both Comune Municipios and we were unable to find Ralph's birth record, but we did find Francesco's (see attached) in Sant'Andrea which correlated to what I was told prior.

Unfortunately the Comune Municipio in Isca sullo Ionio was under total renovation and all records were at another location and were not available to view. Was planning on revisiting this year but Covid came and cancelled those plans.

I did search the records on Familysearch.org (scanned microfilm) and found some documents but not all.

I'm also trying to find my Great-Great Grandparents birth & marriage records:

Madaleena Nestico Parents:

Giuseppe (Joseph) Nestico
BIRTH 1868 • Italy
DEATH 2 FEB 1936 • Kulpmont, Northumberland, Pennsylvania, USA

Catherine Mirarchi Nestico
BIRTH 13 MAY 1863 • Isca sullo Ionio, Catanzaro, Calabria, Italy
DEATH 18 MAY 1950 • Kulpmont, Northumberland, Pennsylvania, USA


Raffaele Pisani Parents:

Looking for Nicola's Birth and Death Certificate along with Marriage Cert with Maria Rosari Greco and her Birth Certificate.

Nicola supposedly never left Italy and I was unable to locate records for him in Sant'Andrea, but have not scanned all the documents online yet, I do not know when he was born.

Nicola Pisani
BIRTH Unknown
DEATH 1901 in Italy (listed in an obituary of Maria Rosario Greco in 1939)

Maria Rosario Greco
BIRTH 8 MAY 1856 • Isca sullo Ionio, Catanzaro, Calabria, Italy
DEATH 2 MAY 1939 • Shamokin, Northumberland, Pennsylvania, USA

Any other info like further family line going back is also needed if anyone knows anything or can help me in my search.

Thanks!

[Tessa78]

I do not find the birth act of Francesco attached

T.

[adelfio]

INDEX#9
Marriage Publication record 1890 Aug 3rd Giuseppe (Joseph) Nestico age 24 farmer son of deceased Antonio Nestico and Elisabetta Mannello married Catherine Maria Mirarchi age 26 cotton spinner daughter of Giuseppe Mirarchi and Rosa Varnno

PG LINK
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

Marty

[afecad]

Not sure what happened to the attachment but thank you adelfio for translating. Does it mention where Giuseppe and Maria Rosario were born? I'm trying to track down their birth records as well, thanks.

So there is two records of marriage correct? I only found this one initially "Atti di matrimonio", can you explain the difference?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

Next thing I'm trying to find is Giuseppe Nestico's birth certificate, but these are not listed on familysearch.org, appears I need to go to a local center to view the microfilm.

Also found another relative, Andrea Antonio Pisani and believe my 2nd Great-Grandmother is listed as the parent only (Rosario Greco). I uploaded but the link is easier to read.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

[afecad]

I do not find the birth act of Francesco attached

T.

Here is the direct link, he is Numero 1.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043789

[adelfio]

This is for you
Marriages [matrimoni]
After 1809 Napoleonic law required that the marriage ceremony be performed first by a civil authority and then, if desired, by a church authority. It was then recorded in the civil records. At first, some people resisted this law and had their marriages performed by church authority only. Later when it became legally necessary for their children to be recognized as legitimate, a civil ceremony was performed. In rare cases, you may find a marriage record for a couple in their 50s who were actually married 30 years earlier. In most cases you may find marriages recorded in both civil and church records.

Marriages were usually performed and recorded where the bride lived. In some provinces, these records date from 1809 or from 1820. The early civil marriage records may include more information than the church records. When available, search both the civil and church records of marriage.

If you believe a marriage took place but cannot find a record of the marriage, search records of intent to marry.

Marriage Banns [pubblicazioni, notificazioni, memorandum]. You may find records that show a couple’s intent to marry in addition to or instead of actual marriage records. The following are various records that may have been created to show a couple’s intent to marry.

Proclamation, allegations, or banns [notificazioni, pubblicazioni, memorandum].These notifications were made a few weeks before a couple planned to marry. The couple may have been required to announce their intended marriage to give other community members the opportunity to raise any objections to the marriage. If one member of the bridal party lived elsewhere, banns were posted in that community also. If you know that a marriage took place but cannot find it in the marriage records of the community, search the marriage banns. It may be posted there and lead you to the community where the marriage actually took place.

Supporting documents [processetti or allegati]. These documents were often filed by the bride and groom in support of their intent or "solemn promise" to marry. Records proving their births and their parents’ births and deaths and sometimes documentation on earlier generations may be included. The names of former spouses and their death dates are also provided.
Marriage Documentation
You may find the following records that document the legal completion of the marriage.

Certificates [certificati]. The individual who performed the ceremony or the civil office where the ceremony was recorded may have given the couple a certificate of marriage. This may be in the possession of the family, and the civil registrar may have copies. Usually, however, when writing for information and requesting a certificate, you will receive only a transcription of the most pertinent information. Extracts [estratti] will give you the complete information.

Marriage registers [registri dei matrimoni]. Civil officials recorded the marriages they performed in registers, usually preprinted forms bound in a book and kept in the civil office.

Marriage registers give the date of the marriage and the names of the bride and groom. They also indicate whether the bride and groom were single or widowed and give the names of witnesses. They often include other information about the bride and groom, such as age, birthplace, residence, occupation, name of person giving consent, and names of parents. In cases of second and later marriages, the marriage registers may include the names of previous spouses and their death dates. The registers usually include the date of the church ceremony.

There are two types of printed forms found when researching Italian civiil marriages. The first is a "solemn promise" to marry - a document created when a couple appeared at the city offices and promised they would marry one another (the banns had already been posted by this time). This document is usually found in pre-unification records (1866-1871). The second is a post-unification record and is the actual marriage document. See translations of these pre-printed forms.

Marty

[Tessa78]

Not sure what happened to the attachment but thank you adelfio for translating. Does it mention where Giuseppe and Maria Rosario were born? I'm trying to track down their birth records as well, thanks.

So there is two records of marriage correct? I only found this one initially "Atti di matrimonio", can you explain the difference?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

The link Marty provided was for the Pubblicazioni di Matrimoni (Publication of Marriage Banns on 3 August); and the link you provided was for the actual marriage (Atti di Matrimoni on 29 September)

Also... thank you for posting the record for Francesco.
In that birth act, the mother Rosaria Greco is age 19. It may be that Francesco was the first born...
For that reason I searched for a Publication of Marriage act working back from 1875 through 1872, for the couple (Nicola Pisani and Rosaria Greco,) with no success.

T.

[afecad]

Not sure what happened to the attachment but thank you adelfio for translating. Does it mention where Giuseppe and Maria Rosario were born? I'm trying to track down their birth records as well, thanks.

So there is two records of marriage correct? I only found this one initially "Atti di matrimonio", can you explain the difference?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

The link Marty provided was for the Pubblicazioni di Matrimoni (Publication of Marriage Banns on 3 August); and the link you provided was for the actual marriage (Atti di Matrimoni on 29 September)

Also... thank you for posting the record for Francesco.
In that birth act, the mother Rosaria Greco is age 19. It may be that Francesco was the first born...
For that reason I searched for a Publication of Marriage act working back from 1875 through 1872, for the couple (Nicola Pisani and Rosaria Greco,) with no success.

T.

Thanks to the both of you for this info on marriages.

To my knowledge from family notes, Nicola and Maria Rosario Pisani's first child was:

Concetta Pisani
1873–1954
BIRTH 6 MAR 1873 • Badolato, Catanzaro, Calabria, Italy

I did not find her birth cert in Badolato via familysearch.org but I may have missed it or she was born elsewhere? That also may pose a marriage location totally different than what I thought as well?

[Tessa78]

Thank you for that additional information!
Yes, it may help to locate a marriage.

I noticed in one of your other posts that you located the death act of Nicola Pisani in 1902
He was born in about 1846. in Sant'Andrea. Father was Luigi, mother was Marianna Damiani, both deceased.

T.

[afecad]

Thank you for that additional information!
Yes, it may help to locate a marriage.

I noticed in one of your other posts that you located the death act of Nicola Pisani in 1902
He was born in about 1846. in Sant'Andrea. Father was Luigi, mother was Marianna Damiani, both deceased.

T.

Yes that is correct though the address listed is not one in Isca sullo Ionio, perhaps the streets changed or ?

I was in Sant'Andrea last year, could not find any info on him at the Municipio going through the physical books but may have missed it as the older books were very hard to read even with the translators help.

[Tessa78]

I checked the births (as you did) in Badolato in 1873.
The only Concetta I found was born on 6 March 1873, and she was a foundling. Her name was recorded as Maria Concetta Pia Esposito.

My thoughts... In March 1873, Rosaria Greco would have been 16 years of age.
It is POSSIBLE that Rosaria and Nicola's first child was this child who was abandoned because, perhaps, they were not married. Nicola would have been about 27.
It would certainly help to find their marriage act. If it took place after the birth of Concetta, they will have "recognized/legitimized" the birth at their marriage.

T.

[afecad]

I checked the births (as you did) in Badolato in 1873.
The only Concetta I found was born on 6 March 1873, and she was a foundling. Her name was recorded as Maria Concetta Pia Esposito.

My thoughts... In March 1873, Rosaria Greco would have been 16 years of age.
It is POSSIBLE that Rosaria and Nicola's first child was this child who was abandoned because, perhaps, they were not married. Nicola would have been about 27.
It would certainly help to find their marriage act. If it took place after the birth of Concetta, they will have "recognized/legitimized" the birth at their marriage.

T.

That is indeed possible on Concetta. The news clipping stated she married a Pasquale Dominianni in 1896 in Italy, so maybe the marriage record is something I need to search for to validate the parents.

I do not have access to the older records that are not online at familysearch.org which has stopped me from searching for , looks like I may have to go to my local center to view the microfilm.

My 2nd Great-Grandmother's grave marker notes she was born on 5 May 1856 to be exact.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131 ... rio-pisani

[Tessa78]

I checked the births (as you did) in Badolato in 1873.
The only Concetta I found was born on 6 March 1873, and she was a foundling. Her name was recorded as Maria Concetta Pia Esposito.

My thoughts... In March 1873, Rosaria Greco would have been 16 years of age.
It is POSSIBLE that Rosaria and Nicola's first child was this child who was abandoned because, perhaps, they were not married. Nicola would have been about 27.
It would certainly help to find their marriage act. If it took place after the birth of Concetta, they will have "recognized/legitimized" the birth at their marriage.

T.

That is indeed possible on Concetta. The news clipping stated she married a Pasquale Dominianni in 1896 in Italy, so maybe the marriage record is something I need to search for to validate the parents.

I do not have access to the older records that are not online at familysearch.org which has stopped me from searching for , looks like I may have to go to my local center to view the microfilm.

My 2nd Great-Grandmother's grave marker notes she was born on 5 May 1856 to be exact.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131 ... rio-pisani

Here is her Publication of Marriage to Pasquale Dominianni in 1895 (16 January)
Her name is Maria Concetta Pia Esposito, daughter of unknown parents.
Banns were posted on 20, 27, 30 January. Marriage usually took place soon after that.
#4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

T.

[afecad]

I checked the births (as you did) in Badolato in 1873.
The only Concetta I found was born on 6 March 1873, and she was a foundling. Her name was recorded as Maria Concetta Pia Esposito.

My thoughts... In March 1873, Rosaria Greco would have been 16 years of age.
It is POSSIBLE that Rosaria and Nicola's first child was this child who was abandoned because, perhaps, they were not married. Nicola would have been about 27.
It would certainly help to find their marriage act. If it took place after the birth of Concetta, they will have "recognized/legitimized" the birth at their marriage.

T.

That is indeed possible on Concetta. The news clipping stated she married a Pasquale Dominianni in 1896 in Italy, so maybe the marriage record is something I need to search for to validate the parents.

I do not have access to the older records that are not online at familysearch.org which has stopped me from searching for , looks like I may have to go to my local center to view the microfilm.

My 2nd Great-Grandmother's grave marker notes she was born on 5 May 1856 to be exact.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131 ... rio-pisani

Here is her Publication of Marriage to Pasquale Dominianni in 1895 (16 January)
Her name is Maria Concetta Pia Esposito, daughter of unknown parents.
Banns were posted on 20, 27, 30 January. Marriage usually took place soon after that.
#4
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=744559

T.

Oh thanks for doing the research and finding this! I only know she was in the family and her name prior to marriage was Concetta Pisani in Shamokin, PA. Maybe she was adopted or back in that time she was born out of wedlock? Interesting!

[rpisani115]

HI I see this is an old post but I just searched Ralph Pisani and this popped up. Are you still around? I am Robert J Pisani Jr from Baltimore, MD. I think we are cousins. My Grandfather was Alphonse J Pisani, (Guido's older brother). Born in 1913 I believe in Shamokin, and Died Jan 2000. He was the oldest sibling. I met Guido one time when I was very young. Slicked back black hair with a white t-shirt on and a pack of cigarettes rolled up in his shoulder. LOL. I just recently asked my Aunt about some information on where they were from in Italy. She is Phyllis Dryden (nee Pisani). She is Alphonse's oldest living child. My father is Robert J Pisani Sr, also still living. My Uncle, Ralph Pisani Sr passed in 2000 as well. And there was a younger brother, Ed, who passed when he was 7 or 8. I would love to discuss this more with you and find out any info you might have. Please respond if you are still active. Thanks.