questions on birth record father

[tblakely31]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else has come across Italian birth records where it states father wishes to not be named. All of the children born to my Great Great Grandmother has stated on their birth records that the father wished to not be named. This goes from the period of 1879 to 1898. Its interesting she had 10 children but father didn't want to be named. Would that be because father was already married? Would there be any other reasons?
Thanks, Tammy

[darkerhorse]

I've seen father unknown or unidentified, but not father wishes to be unnamed.

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else has come across Italian birth records where it states father wishes to not be named. All of the children born to my Great Great Grandmother has stated on their birth records that the father wished to not be named. This goes from the period of 1879 to 1898. Its interesting she had 10 children but father didn't want to be named. Would that be because father was already married? Would there be any other reasons?
Thanks, Tammy

Hi

Yes. It is not uncommon to see this wording in birth records. He may have been a person of high standing in the town e.g. " the priest" or other person. Usually there is additional wording in the document declaring that the father was not related in anyway etc. Can you post links to three of the records for us to view. Ta

Angela

[erudita74]

Priests were known to have mistresses, and it was not uncommon for them to father illegitimate children with their concubines. In the civil birth records, it would state the mother's name and that the children were born from her natural union with a man, who was not a relative in any degree which would prevent him from being named, but also that the man did not consent to be named. Then these illegitimate children were given the mother's surname.

[tblakely31]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613

Here are some of them. Back in the forum previously I had asked for help transcribing some of the documents and that is where I got the information from about father wish to not be named.

[tblakely31]

Growing up my family was always told fathers name was Luigi Mauri. They had also said he died in Italy. Possibly around 1902. In 1902 is when Carmela Peri along with a few kids came to US using Peri as last name. Then switched to last name Mauri for everything in US. In Carmela Peri's US obit it states beloved wife of Luigi Mauri. Some people on Ancestry have down Luigi was from Bagheria/Bageria but I haven't been able to find any supporting documents.

[AngelaGrace56]

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947613

Here are some of them. Back in the forum previously I had asked for help transcribing some of the documents and that is where I got the information from about father wish to not be named.

Thank you for posting these, Tammy. Interesting that each baby was born at a different address. None of them say anything about "...not being related in any degree which would prevent him from being named...."

I checked the death records for a few years but didn't find a Luigi Belsito. Didn't see any evidence of the surname Mauri either, in the death indices I looked at so maybe was from another town.

So the obit said "Wife of Luigi Mauri" not the "Wife of the late Luigi Mauri"?

So who was she going to visit in the US? and you are absolutely sure she didn't marry there?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

(Okay, I've answered one of my questions. I've located an old related thread, so this has been worked on previously by Suanj and Marty who are both outstanding researchers.)

So she was a single mother going to Ralston Pa to see sons Matteo and Rosario. (Note saying that on the census it says widowed)
https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... ri#p189564

Anyways, I'll leave this here and hopefully someone with fresh eyes can carry on with it, as I need to take a break.

Angela

[erudita74]

I just want to comment on what Angela wrote above "Note saying that on the census it says widowed"

***Years ago, in researching my husband's Sicilian ancestry, I found on the US census a case in which a Sicilian immigrant female relative of his, who married a man from the same Sicilian town as herself, but in NYC, listed herself as a widow on the US 1930 census. They had had two American born children together, but when these children were very young, he abandoned her and the children and returned to Sicily, never to be heard from again. This was right before the mid 1920s, but on the 1930 census, she reported herself to be a "widow." The fact of the matter is that he did die in Sicily, but not for another 20 years. He also never remarried there, and she never remarried in the U.S. So she actually wasn't a widow in 1930 but, I believe, just a woman who was trying to save herself and her US born children from the embarrassment of her husband (their father) having abandoned them. So, when I see the word "widow" on the U.S. census now, in relation to an immigrant woman, I always question the legitimacy of the word. So maybe Luigi Mauri/Maiuri wasn't really deceased by 1910, as reported in the census of that year.

[tblakely31]

Thank you everyone for all the input!! It is a hard one for sure. I know other relatives from same family line have a similar story about Luigi dying in Sicily around 1902. Erudita74 I will keep this in mind as I try to keep searching for answers. That is very possible. I just find it strange for that time period of having so many children and not having fathers listed on any birth or death records. I'm just the type of person who would love to know the back story but that is something I might not be able to ever come up with. I appreciate all of the work you all do to help out!! You all are amazing!!

Thanks, Tammy

[Italysearcher]

In researching Diocese documents I have found in several towns, references to illicit relations between people in the town and even mention of children from those unions. This, of course would never appear in civil records.

[erudita74]

In researching Diocese documents I have found in several towns, references to illicit relations between people in the town and even mention of children from those unions. This, of course would never appear in civil records.

church records for the town of Montemaggiore Belsito, where these children were born, are not available online and the poster, Tammy, would, unfortunately, have to hire a local genealogist in order to access them.

[erudita74]

Thank you everyone for all the input!! It is a hard one for sure. I know other relatives from same family line have a similar story about Luigi dying in Sicily around 1902. Erudita74 I will keep this in mind as I try to keep searching for answers. That is very possible. I just find it strange for that time period of having so many children and not having fathers listed on any birth or death records. I'm just the type of person who would love to know the back story but that is something I might not be able to ever come up with. I appreciate all of the work you all do to help out!! You all are amazing!!

Thanks, Tammy

Tammy
Just curious. In what US documents does the surname change for the children first appear? I have seen surname changes reported in US naturalization records, but no evidence concerning when, and how, the surname change actually occurred

[tblakely31]

https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer ... PUBJs=true

This is the obit from newspaper for Carmela Peri. She came over 6/03/1902 under Carmela Peri with 2 of her youngest children Pietro and Rosaria Peri. Rosaria is my Great Grandma who changed her name to Sarah. The earliest I can find is a directory in 1908 where she is under Carmela Maggiore. I was told that the name Maggiore was a mistake written by a priest when her eldest son married in US around 1903. He kept it that way for his life. Most other directories she was listed as Carmela(wid Luigi/Louis) Mauri. Her younger children were listed with Maiuri last name in 1910 census. My Great Grandma was under her married name for naturalization record. As far as I know Carmela Mauri never naturalized. She died in 1928. The last name has been spelled many ways over the years.
So are there also church records that would be kept besides the civil ones I have found?

[erudita74]

Tammy
The link you provided is just a link to contact you to get permission from you to view your tree on ancestry.com. It doesn't take me to the obit, and I also don't have a subscription to ancestry.com

Church records for the town of Montemaggiore Belsito are not accessible online. The problem is that church records are not standardized as to their contents. So a parish priest, or his clerk, while required to record a vital event, such as a birth/baptism, marriage, or death, since around the year 1545, was not bound by any rules as to what info he or his assistant(s) included in the record. I personally have never seen a church which included info about illicit relations in a town, as Ann has said, but I'm not saying such records don't exist. Just that I personally have never seen any that do, and I have viewed online church records in some towns in Palermo Province, Catania Province, Siracusa Province, and Trapani Province, Sicily.


Basilica di Sant'Agata Vergine e Martire in the Diocese of Cefalu`

Mailing address:

S. AGATA V. M.
Piazza Basilica
MONTEMAGGIORE BELSITO –
90020 (PA)
Sicilia

*the parish has a facebook page, if you have a facebook acct, but I have no idea how you would request info, in Italian, with respect to records involving illicit relations.

Erudita