Rome Hospital Birth? Where to look for a potentional mothers death record

[lyn1982]

I was looking through my ggf's birth record again and noticed something potentially interesting.

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 17/LDdGDqn

On the same page it appears the baby born right before him was born at the same exact location - only this baby has parents listed. Which makes me think - this has to mean that my ggf wasn't born at a place specifically for foundlings/unmarried woman, right? It more then likely is a hospital for births where mother is in some sort of danger, right? Which could mean she potentially died after the birth.

These births are in Series D - which I tried to find a corresponding death series or antenati series for - to no avail. They must be absorbed into one of the other series I guess, like the antenati. Could anyone tell me where to look? Even though I obviously don't have a surname I do have a protentional list of possible ones based on my DNA. Specifically Martorana, Iacono, Falzone or Fradella.

Also of note - the baby born right after my ggf appears to also have unknown parents but be born at a different location.

[PippoM]

The address "via Laterano" probably refers to the Hospital of San Giovanni, near the church of San Giovanni in Laterano.

[mmogno]

The address "via Laterano" probably refers to the Hospital of San Giovanni, near the church of San Giovanni in Laterano.

In effetti c'è scritto "nella casa posta in V. Laterano al numero ospedale"

[lyn1982]

The address "via Laterano" probably refers to the Hospital of San Giovanni, near the church of San Giovanni in Laterano.

Thank you for that information! I didn't know was a church there - do you think he's likely baptized there? If so, any idea how to get the baptism record?

Woah! I just looked this up - its not just a church, its the mother of all churches! I guess there's an email I can contact too I'll probably do that!

[lyn1982]

The address "via Laterano" probably refers to the Hospital of San Giovanni, near the church of San Giovanni in Laterano.

In effetti c'è scritto "nella casa posta in V. Laterano al numero ospedale"

Are you saying he wasn't born in the hospital, but a house nearby it then? Might there be some way to find out who lived there, or if it was some sort of boarding house or something? Though from what I could tell the baby in record above him was born there too and does have parents listed, so I can't imagine that its housing for unwed mothers if thats the case.

[darkerhorse]

If you scan through the records the same informant - Pietro - is a clerk and is reporting multiple births on different days with and without parents' names. So, he may be representing the hospital or perhaps some other facility near the hospital, but I vote for the hospital. It's very unlikely that the births occurred in a residential house.

[mmogno]

In my opinion, he was born at San Giovanni Hospital.
The declarant, Pietro Vespasiani, is an official delegated to make declarations by the director of San Giovanni Hospital.

[lyn1982]

If you scan through the records the same informant - Pietro - is a clerk and is reporting multiple births on different days with and without parents' names. So, he may be representing the hospital or perhaps some other facility near the hospital, but I vote for the hospital. It's very unlikely that the births occurred in a residential house.

In my opinion, he was born at San Giovanni Hospital.
The declarant, Pietro Vespasiani, is an official delegated to make declarations by the director of San Giovanni Hospital.

Thanks for the info/clarification both!

For what reason would a baby be born at the hospital in those days? I've heard that was rare back then - that it would be a home of some sort, either family home of home for unwed mothers perhaps.

My thoughts are - difficult birth - maybe mother died? I tried to find death records for around that time - but everything I find seems to only go up to November, and I also don't know what series is the correct location? Any thoughts? I'm thinking it must be in with 1896 maybe, but unsure where. I'd like to scroll through them manually, the ones for that location and date and a week or so after.

Also question - does the record give an exact time of birth down to the minute?

[darkerhorse]

Yes, it looks like 16:50 (4:50pm) on December 6 for your GGF, reported the next day at 16:00 (4:00pm).

It looks like the baby was presented in person when the information was recorded (as was usual), but I'm not certain.

Has anyone translated the entire record for you, including the bottom?

[lyn1982]

Thanks! No, I don't think so, I think I posted here before but someone only did partial - lemme check for sure before I reply......

rlw translated it back in this thread: https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic/48996 to

"Pietro Vespasiani presented an infant born 6 Dec 1895 at the hospital at Via Laterano at 4:50 pm to unknown parents and it was given the name Giuseppe Eppes. The child was sent to the orphanage of Rome's director with a copy of the birth record. Witnesses Giuseppe Barabini, 28, and Giovanni Spadoni, 28."

and gave later info when I asked: "No address for the orphanage, other than "Rome." The person presenting him was a 44 year old clerk living in Rome. No other info on him. For what it is worth, he presented the previous child on that page too. The witnesses are both 28 year old clerks, residents of Rome, and were the witnesses for all the records on these two pages. It's rare for the witnesses to be related on a birth act. Regarding December 21, 1894, the local government functionary recording the act states that he is the section chief and was delegated that authority by the mayor on that date."

[darkerhorse]

It's odd that the informant (Peter) knew the exact time the baby was born in the hospital but he didn't know the identity of the mother - I assume she was there! Maybe she wouldn't give her name or the hospital kept it confidential. I suppose there's an off-chance the mother died at birth but I think the informant would have reported it that way. You could check for her in death records around that date.

I was going to say that the baby might have been left at the hospital as a foundling after his birth - discovered at the time specified - but the translation you cite suggests not. Your idea to search for a baptism record is good but I thought you already did that.

[darkerhorse]

I suppose you've already checked for allegati?

[darkerhorse]

"In 1892 the Hospital of San Rocco at the Port of Ripetta, intended for travailing women, was suppressed and all patients were transferred to San Giovanni Hospital."

The article also mentions a "British Hospital" and "Women's Hospital" in the district.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Giova ... a_Hospital

The surname "Eppes" could be British.

[lyn1982]

It's odd that the informant (Peter) knew the exact time the baby was born in the hospital but he didn't know the identity of the mother - I assume she was there! Maybe she wouldn't give her name or the hospital kept it confidential. I suppose there's an off-chance the mother died at birth but I think the informant would have reported it that way. You could check for her in death records around that date.

I was going to say that the baby might have been left at the hospital as a foundling after his birth - discovered at the time specified - but the translation you cite suggests not. Your idea to search for a baptism record is good but I thought you already did that.

No I haven't searched for baptism because they appear to not be online - someone correct me if thats wrong.

I want to check for death records around the time manually - but theres no series D for deaths and not sure where to look. I do think it would be at end of one of the series - since December birth and all. So not a part 1. I assume the series are based on location/districts in Rome? Is that correct?

Organized by chatgpt we got:

Serie A

Vol. 1, Parte 1 — n. 1–394

Serie B

Vol. 1, Parte 1 — n. 1–804

Vol. 2, Parte 2 — n. 779–1576

Vol. 3, Parte 1 — n. 1601–1998

Vol. 3, Parte 2 — n. 1577–2400

Vol. 4, Parte 1 — n. 2393–3023

Vol. 4, Parte 2 — n. 2401–3131

Vol. 5, Parte 2 — n. 3132–3896

Vol. 6, Parte 2 — n. 3897–4035

Serie C

Vol. 1, Parte 1 — n. 1–793

Vol. 2, Parte 1 — n. 794–1188

Vol. 2, Parte 1 — n. 1189–1588

Vol. 3, Parte 1 — n. 1589–2384


Volume A is probably some small area I'm guessing. So I checked n. 3897-4035, Vol. 6, Parte 2, Serie B here: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 19/wlZxxOB
However if you look it appears the records are from 1894, not 1895. Granted I can't really read them, but I clearly see Decembre 1894 in there. Unless this is a 5 but it don't look like it at all. I'll upload. It looks like could be a 4 or a 6.

Then I went to: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 98/wjZXXAJ n. 1589-2384, Vol. 3, Parte 1, Serie C I don't know if this is the right area even - but it appears to only be going up to November. So I don't know where to look. I guess I try 1896 earlier volumes, but even than don't know which one.

Remember, I did check for allgati but there was no series D for Allegati. Should I just go through and manually look throught the other ones? There's no notation on the birth so I assume no allegati - but perhaps they forgot to notate it?


I see you posted again! Thats very interesting information - although I think they gave him Eppes because its part of Giuseppe. I don't seem to have any British matches or matches to Eppes. My matches all point to Porto Empedocile - some to Martorana - there was a Martorana family that immigrated to Rome - I assume related to them somehow. Or it could be a coincidence and I could have a break idk. I just really need to find some info - theres Martoranas both in and around Niagara Falls that could be related but finding exact orgin is difficult- I couldn't find link to that Falzone one who lived next door though his parents and grandparents I couldn't find connection to and could not get any further back.

I figure if there is a death record mother has to link back to Martorana in some way - otherwise I'm gonna go with theory I got a break here. But either he knew his family or I got a break.


Isn't orphanage used to refer to kids whose parents died? Can we make anything from fact they use that term rather than foundling?

[mmogno]

...
The child was sent to the orphanage of Rome's director with a copy of the birth record. Witnesses Giuseppe Barabini, 28, and Giovanni Spadoni, 28."
...

The translation is inaccurate: Giuseppe Eppes was sent to the brefotrofio in Rome, not an orphanage.
Information about the brefotrofio and its archives can be found here:
https://www.cittametropolitanaroma.it/h ... o-ex-ipai/.
The archives should contain information about the child's history, including details of any foster families, from the moment of admission until reaching the age of majority.