Ancestors from Casacalenda : Guastaferri & Armanno

[JohnArmellino]

Essgee - The second image is much clearer. Thank you. The supplement you describe sounds similar to that found in the Campobasso records and which is entitled Parte II of the Atti di Nati.

An exact translation of the lower section of the record is beyond my abilities, but I believe the baby was left in the care of Rosa del Cioppo.

...ed ho lasciato alla dichiarante il bambino stesso.

...and I have left to the declarant [Rosa del Cioppo] this baby.

[romeo.guastaferri]

Thank you John for the translation.

I guess this puts an end to the search for my granddad's origins. I now know that I'll never find out who his natural parents were, but thanks to you guys here - Susan & cousin John especially - I've gotten to know a whole lot more than I could have imagined about the circumstances of his upbringing. I did get to clarify why he carried two names. I also got to clarify his relation with Carmella Guastaferri. I wasn't sure if they were siblings or cousins... as it turns out, I now know that they were adoptive siblings.

Essgee's contribution puts closure to the official version of what happened. Although I have a feeling that there's a bit more to it. I suspect that the Guastaferri-Del Cioppo couple actually knew the parents of young Giuseppe, but came up with this found child story to hide the details of his real origins. (Maybe daughter Carmella's illegitimate son? (she was 18 when Giuseppe was born)... but I'm just wildly speculating here...) I suspect this based on the fact that there has always been a rumour in my family that my grandfather's natural father was some sort of religious figure (priest or bishop). This information couldn't have been passed down through the years unless the adoptive parents themselves were aware of it. Although it is possible that the whole story might be based on unsubstantiated rumours. That mystery will almost certainly remain unsolved, I'm afraid.

But thanks again to all for your invaluable help. I certainly didn't expect to find out as much as I did about my origins when I first posted to this group. My family and I appreciate your generous contributions.

Arriverderci !

[Essgee]

One day in the future, you may be able to determine, by DNA tests, the origin of the family. As time progresses, the nature of searching for ancestors will go scientific, I am sure.

So in that, there is hope...and where there is hope there are answers.

Your search has not ended, just postponed for the time being!

Best of Luck in finding those ties that bind.......Susan

[romeo.guastaferri]

Thanks for your kind words, Susan.

I was rereading the whole thread, this morning, when I took notice of what you wrote on August 25th : "...can you translate the name Ammano? Does it mean something like "man" or from "man"? If it does, it could indicate that it was a name made up by the Mayor of the town or something like that..." Remember that ? You could hardly have been closer to reality !

On another subject, however, I've tried unsuccessfully to locate a Via Napoli in Casacalenda via Google Map - although not all streets seem to be identified. Is anyone here familiar enough with Casacalenda, to confirm if that street still exists ? It would have been nice to add a picture of that location to the Giuseppe scrapbook.

Romeo

[Essgee]

There are a lot of people from Montreal that came from Casacalenda. Maybe there is someone we can contact...let me post to a couple of sites and see what happens.

I was thinking earlier that if we could determine what families lived on Via Napoli...or near #30 Via Napoli, we might get an idea...of what, I don't know...but familes from what I can tell, tended to remain in the same area of Casacalenda over time. I know mine ancecstors all congregated around one street over the generations.

Let's look and see what we can find..... Back later.

[JohnArmellino]

I believe that Via Napoli is now known as Corso Roma.

The 2006 finish line of Il Giro del Cigno, a famous bicycle race of Casacalenda, is described on the imbedded website as being located along Corso Roma, formerly via Napoli.

[Essgee]

Thanks John....that is a wonderful find!

Romeo.....go to Google and you will find it. Blow it up and then click on satellite..... one of those roof tops might be 30 Via Napoli!

What fun.

[romeo.guastaferri]

John... you wiley ole' thing you... You came through again !

Apparently, in the 30s, Mussolini decreed that all italian towns should have their principal street named via Roma (so I've read on wikipedia...). Which explains why via Napoli became via Roma (or Corso Roma... they're apparently the same)

I did manage to find Corso Roma in Google... if you enter 30 in Google maps, it even points to the exact building !

Correlating various terrain characteristics of what I got from Google Earth with some other pictures that I managed to find on the Internet, I was able to nail these two snapshots of what I think is precisely the area where my great-grandmother claims she found infant Giuseppe :

http://www.casacalendacomune.it/album/old/12.htm
http://www.casacalendacomune.it/album/old/11.htm

I believe street number 30 is located somewhere around the bunch of cars on the left

Wait till I show these to my family...

Regards
Romeo

[Essgee]

Your joy makes me smile!

Did find out that today the town office is at #78 Corso Roma. A resturant around #45 or so and at the other end, #17 is a movie theater. So, wonder how residential the street was back then?


(Google for Casacalenda Net.... It is a site with some forums...people from Casacalenda... Among the things I cannot read, a lot of photographs posted to the site. You may find them interesting....)

[JohnArmellino]

Romeo - Great pictures! I notice that the road sign to Campobasso is clearly visible in the foreground of the first picture. It seems almost symbolic, considering your family's roots in Campobasso.

Susan - Did any of the records you found in the Casacalenda records indicate the address where the Guastaferri family was living? I wonder if it was on via Napoli?

[Essgee]

John and Romeo....

Good guess, John. The death record I posted on page 2 listed Via Napoli...#22.

I have the other records...but am having trouble posting. They are on Via Napoli for the birth of the kids...but the numbers change.

Will work on posting them and get back to all of you...

[JohnArmellino]

Essgee's contribution puts closure to the official version of what happened. Although I have a feeling that there's a bit more to it. I suspect that the Guastaferri-Del Cioppo couple actually knew the parents of young Giuseppe, but came up with this found child story to hide the details of his real origins. (Maybe daughter Carmella's illegitimate son? (she was 18 when Giuseppe was born)... but I'm just wildly speculating here...) I suspect this based on the fact that there has always been a rumour in my family that my grandfather's natural father was some sort of religious figure (priest or bishop). This information couldn't have been passed down through the years unless the adoptive parents themselves were aware of it. Although it is possible that the whole story might be based on unsubstantiated rumours. That mystery will almost certainly remain unsolved, I'm afraid.

Romeo - In Campobasso, most proietti were simply abandoned at the ruota di proietti. [I wonder if Casacalenda had one of its own --- it seems like a large enough comune to have had one.] The proietti found outside were usually turned over to the ruota di proietti. I've always been curious when the wet nurse is the one who actually found the child. Perhaps you can have a DNA comparison done between you and a blood descendent of the Guastaferri/del Cioppo line. You could throw in a comparison between you and a blood relative of the local priest's family. Imagine if you could actually solve the mystery!

[romeo.guastaferri]

Thanks for the suggestion, John. I sort of thought about that myself. I think I could easily track down Carmella's descendants. Finding the priest assigned to Casacalenda around 1896 (let alone his parents) might prove a bit more daunting. I would need to track down descendants of his siblings (I assume the priest himself has no offical progeniture...) and these are probably all living in Italy today. A bit of a hurdle for someone living in Canada and that doesn't even speak italian...

It's something to think about for the long haul. Certainly not a mystery I expect on solving anytime soon... But so far, it's been quite an entertaining adventure !

[Essgee]

Here are the other records. Hope they take.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/987/ ... rrone4.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2058/c ... riaxx0.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2269 ... rrosa9.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/127/gi ... rroyd1.jpg

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8465 ... rrotb8.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6044 ... ro1tv8.jpg

[romeo.guastaferri]

That's so cool, Susan !

Don't read that much italian, but I can gather from deciphering that last file (Maria Annina's death) that in 1897, when my grandfather was taken into the family, they were living at 22 via Napoli