Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
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PeterTimber
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Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
There are 4 Novaco surnamed persons in Atripalda (AV) lised along with one Novaco business. Go to www.paginebianche.it and put in surname Novaco in first line and Atripalda inthe second line and click CERCA
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warriorrabbit
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Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Hi Carmen,
My recommendation is to forget the worldtree tree you found and start with yourself from scratch. A lot of those public trees out there are notoriously wrong, with info copied from others whose research wasn't great, etc. And with the repetitive names due to naming traditions...
I also wouldn't discount the Sabino who came through Canada. A lot of details are never shared, or are forgotten, or altered inadvertently... My cousin's mother told her that her grandparents met in Canada while both of them were emigrating to the US. She grew up with that story. Later we found her grandfather emigrated through Ellis Island, not Canada. We're still not sure why they told her that story, or how her grandparents really met.
Lastly, some actual help: Maria Bilotti married Giuseppe Pacifico on Oct. 7, 1900 in Manhattan, cert #16662. If you think that's her, you can order the certificate from the Municipal Archives.
My recommendation is to forget the worldtree tree you found and start with yourself from scratch. A lot of those public trees out there are notoriously wrong, with info copied from others whose research wasn't great, etc. And with the repetitive names due to naming traditions...
I also wouldn't discount the Sabino who came through Canada. A lot of details are never shared, or are forgotten, or altered inadvertently... My cousin's mother told her that her grandparents met in Canada while both of them were emigrating to the US. She grew up with that story. Later we found her grandfather emigrated through Ellis Island, not Canada. We're still not sure why they told her that story, or how her grandparents really met.
Lastly, some actual help: Maria Bilotti married Giuseppe Pacifico on Oct. 7, 1900 in Manhattan, cert #16662. If you think that's her, you can order the certificate from the Municipal Archives.
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Some of the Novaco information I have is on line with World Connect which I believe you have already connected with. The information is from Church Records from Atripalda, which I obtained from the Church of Latter Day Saints. The records are photographed and published for anyone to copy or read.
My grandfather immigrated from Atripalda to Boston in 1911 on a ship called Romanic. He was listed as visiting cousins from the Amorosa Family in Boston. I am not sure when he migrated into Canada, but he was married in 1913 in Toronto.
His brother Antonio came later via Ellis Island.
There is a group of Novacos in New Jersey that first started coming via Ellis Island in 1897. We have yet to figure out where our lines fit in.
Hope this helps.
My grandfather immigrated from Atripalda to Boston in 1911 on a ship called Romanic. He was listed as visiting cousins from the Amorosa Family in Boston. I am not sure when he migrated into Canada, but he was married in 1913 in Toronto.
His brother Antonio came later via Ellis Island.
There is a group of Novacos in New Jersey that first started coming via Ellis Island in 1897. We have yet to figure out where our lines fit in.
Hope this helps.
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Hi All!
Such great info, thanks!!
warriorrabbit: That should definitely be the Maria and Giuseppe Pacifico I am looking for. How can I research these municipal archives myself?
As for tracing backward from myself, my only source of info is my father. He is adopted, and thus (correctly or not) never really asked questions about the ancestors. So his recollections from conversations, or from actual people/names he was introduced to as a child are all I have to go on. When I showed him the worldtree, he did seem to think it was correct. I honestly don't know, and wouldn't know how/where to get correct information, if indeed it is wrong.
I do know that my dad's paternal side of the family (Novaco) (I misspoke in a previous post) NEVER came to the united states. Sabino met and married Carmella in Atripalda and they never left.
Carmella's brother Nicola Bilotti came and left the US, but we don't know when. Maria Bilotti came to the US as a teenager, summoned by her betrothed. They (Giuseppe and Maria) married in NY, which is why I believe your municipal archive is accurate.
On the other side of my family are the Amitranos. I was able to trace Mattia Amitrano to the US in 1920, his wife Carolena and their children came to the US from Massa Lubrense in the late 1920s, and I think the Ellis records cease as of 1924 so I cannot find ANTHING on Carolena or their children (they had 7, all of whom immigrated with their mother when sent for around 1928-1930).
One of their sons, Salvatore, was my grandfather. He was born in Massa in 1916, and arrived in the US at around age 14, which puts the date around 1930.
Maria and Giuseppe Pacifico had a daughter, Anna. Anna married Salvatore. So, it APPEARS that my parents are 3rd or 4th cousins, but since my dad is adopted, there is no blood relation.
Interesting family tree, isn't it??
Any and all help, again, is SO appreciated!
Such great info, thanks!!
warriorrabbit: That should definitely be the Maria and Giuseppe Pacifico I am looking for. How can I research these municipal archives myself?
As for tracing backward from myself, my only source of info is my father. He is adopted, and thus (correctly or not) never really asked questions about the ancestors. So his recollections from conversations, or from actual people/names he was introduced to as a child are all I have to go on. When I showed him the worldtree, he did seem to think it was correct. I honestly don't know, and wouldn't know how/where to get correct information, if indeed it is wrong.
I do know that my dad's paternal side of the family (Novaco) (I misspoke in a previous post) NEVER came to the united states. Sabino met and married Carmella in Atripalda and they never left.
Carmella's brother Nicola Bilotti came and left the US, but we don't know when. Maria Bilotti came to the US as a teenager, summoned by her betrothed. They (Giuseppe and Maria) married in NY, which is why I believe your municipal archive is accurate.
On the other side of my family are the Amitranos. I was able to trace Mattia Amitrano to the US in 1920, his wife Carolena and their children came to the US from Massa Lubrense in the late 1920s, and I think the Ellis records cease as of 1924 so I cannot find ANTHING on Carolena or their children (they had 7, all of whom immigrated with their mother when sent for around 1928-1930).
One of their sons, Salvatore, was my grandfather. He was born in Massa in 1916, and arrived in the US at around age 14, which puts the date around 1930.
Maria and Giuseppe Pacifico had a daughter, Anna. Anna married Salvatore. So, it APPEARS that my parents are 3rd or 4th cousins, but since my dad is adopted, there is no blood relation.
Interesting family tree, isn't it??
Any and all help, again, is SO appreciated!
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warriorrabbit
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- Posts: 284
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- Location: San Diego
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Carmen,
You can order the birth certificate here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vi ... iage.shtml
You can use the second link because you already know the certificate number. It's only about $12 and relatively fast. It'll say who their parents are, and the witnesses are sometimes helpful, too.
italiangen.org has most (not quite all) of the NYC indexes for deaths and marriages online.
The Mormons are a great source. Find your local FHC and order microfilms for the years/towns you need. They've filmed most of the civil records, especially in Sicily.
Your local library will have Ancestry.com, and Ancestry.com will include arrivals up through the 1950s. My mother was surprised when I found her arrival records for 1954, etc. when she came home to visit (she was studying in Florence). Also, it includes some other ports in case they didn't come through New York. It also has census records.
Does your father have paperwork from his adoption? It might have some info, like how old your grandparents were when they adopted, occupations, and so on.
You can order the birth certificate here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vi ... iage.shtml
You can use the second link because you already know the certificate number. It's only about $12 and relatively fast. It'll say who their parents are, and the witnesses are sometimes helpful, too.
italiangen.org has most (not quite all) of the NYC indexes for deaths and marriages online.
The Mormons are a great source. Find your local FHC and order microfilms for the years/towns you need. They've filmed most of the civil records, especially in Sicily.
Your local library will have Ancestry.com, and Ancestry.com will include arrivals up through the 1950s. My mother was surprised when I found her arrival records for 1954, etc. when she came home to visit (she was studying in Florence). Also, it includes some other ports in case they didn't come through New York. It also has census records.
Does your father have paperwork from his adoption? It might have some info, like how old your grandparents were when they adopted, occupations, and so on.
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warriorrabbit
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Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Carolina Amitrano Volpice, 43, arrived on the Augustus on June 30, 1931. Departed June 20 from Napoli.
Traveling with her were Giuseppe, 14; Luigi, 12; Evelina, 10; Vittoria, 7; and Salvatore, 16. Salvatore is a sailor. According to the manifest, the kids can read and write and she cannot. They are from M. Lubrense and they have visa numbers 5745 N.Q - 5750 N.Q, issued 6/15/31 in Naples. Last place of residence MassLubrense. Her father Raffaele in Massa L. is the name/address of contact in Italy. She's got $40, they've never been to the US, and they are going to see her husband Mattia at 502 West 28 St. She and Salvatore are 5'5" and Giuseppe is 5' and they don't list for anyone else. They all have brown hair and brown eyes.
So there you go. You've even got her father's name, Raffaele. They either had 2 kids here, or 2 kids came over separately.
I don't know how this'll turn out, but
http://www.describe.org/genstuff/amitrano.jpg
http://www.describe.org/genstuff/amitrano2.jpg
T.
Traveling with her were Giuseppe, 14; Luigi, 12; Evelina, 10; Vittoria, 7; and Salvatore, 16. Salvatore is a sailor. According to the manifest, the kids can read and write and she cannot. They are from M. Lubrense and they have visa numbers 5745 N.Q - 5750 N.Q, issued 6/15/31 in Naples. Last place of residence MassLubrense. Her father Raffaele in Massa L. is the name/address of contact in Italy. She's got $40, they've never been to the US, and they are going to see her husband Mattia at 502 West 28 St. She and Salvatore are 5'5" and Giuseppe is 5' and they don't list for anyone else. They all have brown hair and brown eyes.
So there you go. You've even got her father's name, Raffaele. They either had 2 kids here, or 2 kids came over separately.
I don't know how this'll turn out, but
http://www.describe.org/genstuff/amitrano.jpg
http://www.describe.org/genstuff/amitrano2.jpg
T.
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warriorrabbit
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Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Carmen,
Carolina came over too late for the 1930 census, but there is a Mattia Amitrano on the 1930 census -- along with sons Anthony and Ralph, 17 and 16. Now you know her father's name is Raffaele, so that makes sense that son #2 is Ralph. So you can assume (but verify) Mattia's dad is Antonino. They lived at 512 West 29th St. Mattia *and* Anthony are married (?), Mattia was married at 24 (so you've got a rough idea when they were married). Mattia says he came over at 1905, the boys in 1928, and they are naturalized. He's a longshoreman, Anthony is a barber, and Ralph is in school.
1930; Census Place: Manhattan, New York, New York; Roll: 1549; Page: 13A; Enumeration District: 312; Image: 26.0.
Check for multiple arrivals for Mattia. It's a never-ending rabbit hole -- check Mattia's 1905 arrival, and he lists a brother-in-law. A 1920 arrival lists his wife (in Italy) as Carolina Volpicella, another (if it's the right Mattia) suggests his father Antonino is already here, a couple of other years it's cousins. You can find out so much from manifests.
Anthony and Raffaele came over together in 1928 on the Saturnia, Sep. 17. They must have come while dad was in Italy; they list the same cousin he had one of the other years -- Luigi Della Barca
Now that you have all the names of those sons, you can look them up in the Social Security Death Index to find out when they died.
http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com
You might find the girls, too, but they tend to get lost due to marriage. Anyhow, then you can look for obituaries, find descendants, etc.
Looks like there's a lot of info for you before you even look into the Mormon films.
Good luck! Keep us updated.
Carolina came over too late for the 1930 census, but there is a Mattia Amitrano on the 1930 census -- along with sons Anthony and Ralph, 17 and 16. Now you know her father's name is Raffaele, so that makes sense that son #2 is Ralph. So you can assume (but verify) Mattia's dad is Antonino. They lived at 512 West 29th St. Mattia *and* Anthony are married (?), Mattia was married at 24 (so you've got a rough idea when they were married). Mattia says he came over at 1905, the boys in 1928, and they are naturalized. He's a longshoreman, Anthony is a barber, and Ralph is in school.
1930; Census Place: Manhattan, New York, New York; Roll: 1549; Page: 13A; Enumeration District: 312; Image: 26.0.
Check for multiple arrivals for Mattia. It's a never-ending rabbit hole -- check Mattia's 1905 arrival, and he lists a brother-in-law. A 1920 arrival lists his wife (in Italy) as Carolina Volpicella, another (if it's the right Mattia) suggests his father Antonino is already here, a couple of other years it's cousins. You can find out so much from manifests.
Anthony and Raffaele came over together in 1928 on the Saturnia, Sep. 17. They must have come while dad was in Italy; they list the same cousin he had one of the other years -- Luigi Della Barca
Now that you have all the names of those sons, you can look them up in the Social Security Death Index to find out when they died.
http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com
You might find the girls, too, but they tend to get lost due to marriage. Anyhow, then you can look for obituaries, find descendants, etc.
Looks like there's a lot of info for you before you even look into the Mormon films.
Good luck! Keep us updated.
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
HOLY COW!! That is indeed my family (Amitrano). Those names (Ralph, Tony, Evie, Vickie, Joey, Sal, Louie) are ALL the siblings (whom I met over my lifetime -- all the boys are now deceased 
)
Thank you for all this!!
I am so grateful for all of the help that I have received here, and all the information provided!!
GRAZIE, TUTTI!
Carmen
)Thank you for all this!!
I am so grateful for all of the help that I have received here, and all the information provided!!
GRAZIE, TUTTI!
Carmen
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warriorrabbit
- Elite
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- Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 18:05
- Location: San Diego
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Hi Carmen,
Glad to help. Hie thee to a library and check out ancestry.com -- it looks like it's got more of Mattia's many arrivals than Ellis Island did (from what I saw). I saw his father and wife listed as a contact at home, and a couple cousins and a brother-in-law (Della Barco, a Matteo Armitano), etc. as the contacts here. You might find all sorts of other branches and leads to follow. Mattia's occupations were fisherman, sailor, etc. and once they listed his middle name -- Carmelo.
Also, looking at the manifest I linked to for Carolina, I guess it was always Volpicelli -- I thought those were typos when it was her name carrying over into the other column; I wasn't paying attention. So you know her father's name is Raffaele Volpicelli (or Volpicella -- saw that, too), and you can probably assume (but verify) that her mother's name is Vittoria and that Mattia's parents were Antonino and Evelina.
On his sons' manifest, it notes that dad is on the same ship. He is on the ship, but he's in the 'I have a passport' section.
His naturalization petition is there, too -- no date, but before Vittoria is born.
Ancestry is really very helpful. Once you've exhausted that, you can order film from the Mormons.
Good luck with everything!
Glad to help. Hie thee to a library and check out ancestry.com -- it looks like it's got more of Mattia's many arrivals than Ellis Island did (from what I saw). I saw his father and wife listed as a contact at home, and a couple cousins and a brother-in-law (Della Barco, a Matteo Armitano), etc. as the contacts here. You might find all sorts of other branches and leads to follow. Mattia's occupations were fisherman, sailor, etc. and once they listed his middle name -- Carmelo.
Also, looking at the manifest I linked to for Carolina, I guess it was always Volpicelli -- I thought those were typos when it was her name carrying over into the other column; I wasn't paying attention. So you know her father's name is Raffaele Volpicelli (or Volpicella -- saw that, too), and you can probably assume (but verify) that her mother's name is Vittoria and that Mattia's parents were Antonino and Evelina.
On his sons' manifest, it notes that dad is on the same ship. He is on the ship, but he's in the 'I have a passport' section.
His naturalization petition is there, too -- no date, but before Vittoria is born.
Ancestry is really very helpful. Once you've exhausted that, you can order film from the Mormons.
Good luck with everything!
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Just checkin' back in and saying Thank YOU ALL for the help!
I did hit up ancestry.com -- since all 4 branches of my mom's side of the family tree (mom's parents and their parents) came to the US in the early 1900's-1930's, beyond any US record/census, I have little to go on to go backward any father than my great-great-grandparents (names listed on records).
As for my father's family, they never came to the US, so there are no American records/census data to use.
I am very happy with what I have found though, and maybe any other information is simply something I would have to look for IN Italy?
Anyway, thank you again so much!!
Carmen
I did hit up ancestry.com -- since all 4 branches of my mom's side of the family tree (mom's parents and their parents) came to the US in the early 1900's-1930's, beyond any US record/census, I have little to go on to go backward any father than my great-great-grandparents (names listed on records).
As for my father's family, they never came to the US, so there are no American records/census data to use.
I am very happy with what I have found though, and maybe any other information is simply something I would have to look for IN Italy?
Anyway, thank you again so much!!
Carmen
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warriorrabbit
- Elite
- Posts: 284
- Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 18:05
- Location: San Diego
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Hi Carmen,
The 1940 census comes out in 2012.
But I think you have a lot to go on. You know roughly when Mattia and Carolina were married, and their parents' names -- all you have to do is order the films from that town and look for their marriage certificate to verify the parents' names. Then you can look through birth records to see if they had siblings, and so on. Many of the microfilmed records go back quite far (1830s). After that you'd have to switch to parish records.
I don't know where you are, but there's probably a Mormon Family History Center near you. You can usually accomplish a lot with the filmed records before having to write to Italy.
You can also look at death records here. If you know when and where Mattia (or whomever) died, for instance, you could probably verify his parents' names if you found his death certificate.
Most of us had relatives that arrived 1900-1930 (me, too), but you can still find out lots just from the public info available here. Maybe you can track down the descendants of the della Barca cousin, for instance. Social Security applications, birth certificates, marriage certificates, and death certificates... they usually all had the parents' names on them.
Don't forget that the naming traditions lasted usually through the first generation, so kids' names on censuses can actually help a lot.
You could also use the community (surname) boards at ancestry.com to post queries. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't, but it can't hurt. If you were looking for descendants of those cousins Mattia listed on the manifests -- maybe their relatives are looking, too. You never know.
If you have a specific question, come back and ask. Meanwhile, you can find a local FHC here.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... et_fhc.asp
You can find the films you need to order here.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... umns=*,0,0
Unfortunately it looks like Massa Lubrense is only covered 1901-1929. Atripalda looks like it goes from 1801-1899.
The 1940 census comes out in 2012.
But I think you have a lot to go on. You know roughly when Mattia and Carolina were married, and their parents' names -- all you have to do is order the films from that town and look for their marriage certificate to verify the parents' names. Then you can look through birth records to see if they had siblings, and so on. Many of the microfilmed records go back quite far (1830s). After that you'd have to switch to parish records.
I don't know where you are, but there's probably a Mormon Family History Center near you. You can usually accomplish a lot with the filmed records before having to write to Italy.
You can also look at death records here. If you know when and where Mattia (or whomever) died, for instance, you could probably verify his parents' names if you found his death certificate.
Most of us had relatives that arrived 1900-1930 (me, too), but you can still find out lots just from the public info available here. Maybe you can track down the descendants of the della Barca cousin, for instance. Social Security applications, birth certificates, marriage certificates, and death certificates... they usually all had the parents' names on them.
Don't forget that the naming traditions lasted usually through the first generation, so kids' names on censuses can actually help a lot.
You could also use the community (surname) boards at ancestry.com to post queries. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't, but it can't hurt. If you were looking for descendants of those cousins Mattia listed on the manifests -- maybe their relatives are looking, too. You never know.
If you have a specific question, come back and ask. Meanwhile, you can find a local FHC here.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... et_fhc.asp
You can find the films you need to order here.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... umns=*,0,0
Unfortunately it looks like Massa Lubrense is only covered 1901-1929. Atripalda looks like it goes from 1801-1899.
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Wow, that's great info, thanks! You're right, I have a LOT to work off of, and in pushing my mom to remember more about names and dates, I have found QUITE a lot of information about all the siblings (my mom's mom's and my mom's dad's siblings).
I will definitely look into the FHC/filmed records as soon as time allows!
In the meantime, I have one more question. Are the NY/NYC/5 boroughs planning on making marriage information available?? The SSI death records have helped me a LOT with confirming birth and death dates, and I have names of people that marred into the family, and their SSI records, but I would love to see the marriage info (which would give me a date of marriage AND a maiden name (for all the women) AND perhaps parents' names)
Just curious if there are ANY marriage records available from NYC/the 5 boroughs.
THX!!
I will definitely look into the FHC/filmed records as soon as time allows!
In the meantime, I have one more question. Are the NY/NYC/5 boroughs planning on making marriage information available?? The SSI death records have helped me a LOT with confirming birth and death dates, and I have names of people that marred into the family, and their SSI records, but I would love to see the marriage info (which would give me a date of marriage AND a maiden name (for all the women) AND perhaps parents' names)
Just curious if there are ANY marriage records available from NYC/the 5 boroughs.
THX!!
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warriorrabbit
- Elite
- Posts: 284
- Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 18:05
- Location: San Diego
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
Hi Carmen,
Go back and find my info about your Pacifico marriage and the certificate. There's a link there for the IGG and the NYC marriage/death indexes they've made available so far.
Go back and find my info about your Pacifico marriage and the certificate. There's a link there for the IGG and the NYC marriage/death indexes they've made available so far.
Re: Greetings! New User here, and a question!!
THANK YOU!!!
EDITED TO ADD:
warriorrabbit: I see the post, and the cert number, but I don't see (sorry!) anything about IGG? I am ignorant here, so you may well have given it to me, I just don't know what I am looking for!
TY!
EDITED TO ADD:
warriorrabbit: I see the post, and the cert number, but I don't see (sorry!) anything about IGG? I am ignorant here, so you may well have given it to me, I just don't know what I am looking for!
TY!
