Certificate of Naturalization doesn't match my records

[BobNY]

Bobny, dates and locations are different, but that mirrors the experience of my gf and is a common scenario.

I don't understand your point.

I am attempting to solve the OPs issue of inconsistent dates. He was not aware of Francesco's arrival in the US prior to 1931. The timeline solves that problem. Yes, the steps are very similar across all immigrant experiences, but these relate specifically to the OPs query. These are the dates each action took place according to the available records. What your gf encountered is immaterial to this discussion.

BTW, quoting the USCIS website of today to address issues almost 100 years old is ludicrous. There have been 7 major legislative changes to Immigration and Naturalization law since 1926.

Here is a Certificate of Citizenship" issued to an immigrant who naturalized on 25 Mar 1940. It is NOT DERIVATIVE, but a naturalization ordered by the Superior Court of Massachusetts.

https://stephendanko.com/blog/wp-conten ... zation.jpg

[mler]

BobNY, if you had taken the time to read my post, you would have read this:

“It’s certainly possible that USCIS rules have changed and that at one time it was possible to request and obtain a citizenship certificate documenting one’s own naturalization.”

However, I misread your post as well. I read it too quickly and did not make an immediate connection to the OP’s ancestor. Upon rereading it, however, I see that your research through Ancestry identified the OP’s ancestor and located information he did not have in his possession. My supposition was based on his initial assumption that his ggf’s arrival in the US with his bride was his first entry to the US, and I offered an explanation based on that.

However, in terms of citizenship recognition, whether he naturalized on his own behalf or naturalized derivatively, he clearly held US and only US citizenship when he arrived with his bride in 1931. This means the citizenship line is restricted to his ggm and is likely a 1948 case. The information you provided will be helpful in that approach because the courts will not hear 1948 cases if there is a viable option through the consulates.

[lucaless]

I don't understand the source of all this confusion. Unless I have an entirely different family, here is a timeline of Francesco's travels readily obtained from Ancestry.com

24 Oct 1920 - Boards SS Belevedere in Palermo in the company of his sister Brigida and nephew Giovanni Portoghese.

12 Nov 1920 - Arrives Port of New York with final destination of Detroit, Michigan at residence of brother-in-law Vincenzo Portoghese. (331 Auburn St.)

1 July 1925 - Relocates to Brooklyn, Kings, New York (218 Moore St.)

8 Mar 1929 - Files Declaration of Intention in the US District Court for the Eastern District of NY.

25 Mar 1931 - Bureau of Naturalization issues certificate of arrival certifying when and where Francesco was lawfully admitted to the US.

8 Apr 1931 - Petition for Naturalization is accepted by Clerk of the Court, USDC-EDNY

21 July 1931 - Francesco subscribes to an Oath of Allegiance, rejecting all foreign allegiances, particularly Victor Emmanuel, King of Italy.

Subsequently, Judge Galston certifies admission to citizenship of List 7338, including Francesco who is issued certificate #3425689.

Bob this seems pretty spot on. How did you get such a detailed timeline? I only got bits and pieces off ancestory.com even with a membership. I do see the ships manifest for his 1920 departure and arrival as well through ellis island. This being the case, his naturalization date would be 1931 and I would have to go through my GGM.

[lucaless]

Lucaless, regarding your question re your great grandmother. If her child (your gf/gm) was born in 1948 or later, there is no issue. If before 1948, you would need to initiate a 1948 case, but you would still be able to obtain citizenship; it would just be a bit more costly.

If you indeed have a Certificate of Citizenship for your ggf, the date would be the date of your gggf’s naturalization, but your gggf’s papers would not be necessary for a citizenship application.

You should definitely check your ggm’s naturalization status. If her husband was a US citizen, there is a strong possibility that she ultimately naturalized.

My GF was born in 1932 so this would put me before 1948. Being that she arrived in 1932, I am pretty sure was not naturalized in that same year. I do see this is still possible but do I need to a lawyer for this situation or can it be done myself? From what I gathered so far I am figuring I just need more documentation from my blood line down to me to prove the lineage.

[mler]

The odds are excellent that she didn’t naturalize before her son’s birth, so you would have a strong 1948 case.

You need documentation from your ggm and need to follow her line to you. You also need to document your ggf’s pre-1932 naturalization (which apparently you can do) to demonstrate there is no viable line through the consulate.

Unfortunately, you need a lawyer to handle a 1948 case, so that might be your first step. Once you settle on a lawyer, he can tell you exactly what documents you will have to provide. You also need to determine if others in your family will be applying with you. That would likely affect the cost, but sharing the lawyer’s fee would help.

[lucaless]

The odds are excellent that she didn’t naturalize before her son’s birth, so you would have a strong 1948 case.

You need documentation from your ggm and need to follow her line to you. You also need to document your ggf’s pre-1932 naturalization (which apparently you can do) to demonstrate there is no viable line through the consulate.

Unfortunately, you need a lawyer to handle a 1948 case, so that might be your first step. Once you settle on a lawyer, he can tell you exactly what documents you will have to provide. You also need to determine if others in your family will be applying with you. That would likely affect the cost, but sharing the lawyer’s fee would help.

Thanks for the info. Upon reading this forum I am seeing what the process is for the 1948 case. I am getting my next steps would to get documentation from the GGM naturalization, and all birth, death certifcates down the line which in my case is GGM-GF-F-Me and hire the attorney. At least I know where I'm at because I have been waiting on USCIS for the official naturalization date of my GGF.

Bob if you can provide any info on my GGM naturalization that would be greatly appreciated!

[lucaless]

I don't understand the source of all this confusion. Unless I have an entirely different family, here is a timeline of Francesco's travels readily obtained from Ancestry.com

24 Oct 1920 - Boards SS Belevedere in Palermo in the company of his sister Brigida and nephew Giovanni Portoghese.

12 Nov 1920 - Arrives Port of New York with final destination of Detroit, Michigan at residence of brother-in-law Vincenzo Portoghese. (331 Auburn St.)

1 July 1925 - Relocates to Brooklyn, Kings, New York (218 Moore St.)

8 Mar 1929 - Files Declaration of Intention in the US District Court for the Eastern District of NY.

25 Mar 1931 - Bureau of Naturalization issues certificate of arrival certifying when and where Francesco was lawfully admitted to the US.

8 Apr 1931 - Petition for Naturalization is accepted by Clerk of the Court, USDC-EDNY

21 July 1931 - Francesco subscribes to an Oath of Allegiance, rejecting all foreign allegiances, particularly Victor Emmanuel, King of Italy.

Subsequently, Judge Galston certifies admission to citizenship of List 7338, including Francesco who is issued certificate #3425689.

Bob, thank you for this information it is greatly appreciated and has helped me a lot. I am just curious if you could have found anything on his wife (my ggm) Francesca Damiano, particularly naturalization dates? Or any other timelines you could provide on her.